eftychia: Me in poufy shirt, kilt, and Darth Vader mask, playing a bouzouki (vader)
Add MemoryShare This Entry
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 02:39pm on 2006-03-19 under

In a recent conversation the notion that "the reason for the QWERTY keyboard no longers exists" came up. Today I saw a link to an alternative text-entry device (which I haven't looked at closely enough yet to have decided whether it's interesting to me or not), and that got me thinking about the history of the keyboard again.

In that earlier (private email) conversation, I opioned that despite the objective superiority of some other keyboards, the "switching cost" (am I using that term correctly?) outweighed the potential gains for many established Remington (QWERTY[1]) layout users, and that effecting a transition to a more efficient tool on anything other than "a few quirky users here and there" basis (yes, I'm aware I've got friends using Dvorak keyboards and seeing the predicted performance boost -- I'm not knocking it on technical grounds, merely observing that it's not quite "mainstream" yet) would require introducing students to Dvorak before they'd already gotten used to Remington layout, and having their teachers already comfortable with it.

As for myself, I can't see mustering the patience for learning new habits simply for the speed benefits -- I didn't even finish working through the typing method book (borrowed from my mother) once I got to "fast enough that I'm no longer frustrated" speed. (FWIW, I'm pretty fast.) The RSI-related benefits, the "geek factor", curiosity, hackish appreciation for technical superiority ... these are all things which may someday convince me to finally get around to learning Dvorak, but I'm too complacent about my typing speed for speed alone to convince me to take the trouble. (Obviously, this is an explicitly personal observation, more about my attitude than about the tools.) But curiosity does pop up every so often, especially when my arms hurt (fibromyalgia, not an RSI, but even if the typing isn't the direct cause, "hurts to type" still means "hurts to type"), and especially when pondering chording keyboards and other less-standard text-input devices.

Some interesting devices would not work out well for me because of how often I type one-handed. (No, no, I don't mean it that way, you pervs! I mean lying on my side in bed, or standing up holding a keyboard or a whole laptop computer in one hand while typing with the other, or holding a phone or a pen in one hand and typing with the other, or a mouse and keyboard at the same time, or typing on two different computers at once. Or just feeling too tiredlazy to use both hands.) Some chording designs are one-handed designs, IIRC, and would thus make this even easier; other novel designs (as well as split-but-otherwise-conventional keyboards) would seriously get in the way of one-handed use.

(As I've said before, my desire regarding computer interfaces is to get as close as I can to "thinking into the machine". So I really ought to be exploring all these other input devices (not that I have any money to buy toys/tools with, but I should want to more). Someday I'll get around to trying out a few and maybe find one that fits my hands and my brain so well that I'll never want to switch back. For now, the noticeable obstacles are elsewhere in the interface. I'm not usually consciously aware of the mechanics of typing except for noticing a clicking noise while I think.)

But most of this is tangential to the thought that got me to fire up the text editor today. It was really the reminder of the comment that the problem the Remington keyboard solved no longer exists (for most practical purposes).

Me, I've got a good reason (other than "it was what was available/commonplace/taught at the time", which is an inescapable reason and a perfect excuse but not a good technical reason) for having gotten really accustomed to the Remington keyboard. Yes, my incentive for learning to touch-type was to be able to enter BASIC programs in one 45-minute class period, but my first exposure to a typewriter was an ancient ... ah, Underwood, I think, but I should probably ask Mom to make sure. And the typewriter I took with me to university and typed term papers on was a modern (for the time) portable mechanical typewriter. While my motive was the computer, what I practiced on at home was mechanical. I did have hammers jam and have to reach in to unstick them (that being the problem Remington solved -- not forcing people to type more slowly, but making jam-causing combinations less likely[2] so they could type faster). I wasn't using a machine with a ball (IBM Selectric -- which feels so wrong to me that my typing speed falls off dramatically, even compared to my typewriter typing speed which is already much slower than my computer typing speed) or a cylinder (TeleType -- which has no rollover and forces a rate of about 10cps); I did use dot matrix (DECwriter II) sometimes for classes where the professors would accept crappy print with no descenders, and I used the ADDS dumb terminals to write ForTran and SPL and Pascal (and to edit stuff to print out on the DECwriter), but I spent a non-trivial amount of time using a typing machine that had hammers.

So I've got an excuse other than "my culture used it as the default" (sort of -- see footnote 2), but I wonder how many folks on my friendslist ever used a mechanical typewriter with hammers. Obviously I expect a majority of the people approximately my age or older to have done so (whether you learned to touch-type on them or not), but I wonder how many of my younger friends grew up in a house that had a mechanical relic in it or went out looking for one because of retro chic -- or wound up working in an office that still had a mechanical typewriter for envelopes or something.

So, finally getting to the point of this entry (guess I'd better make this a separate paragraph), How many of you have actually had to pry the hammers apart to make the keys go back up, getting ink on your fingers? .. And, uh, how many of you learned to touch type while you were still using that sort of typewriter?


[1] Which I recently had to reminded was commonly called "QWERTY" because I couldn't remember that it's properly "Remington" and I spend more time touching the keys than looking at them, so I wanted to refer to it by the keys on the home row. I wrote "ASDF" but knew it looked wrong even though I couldn't figure out why. When someone replied, "most people refer to that as QWERTY" I felt a tad foolish for having had a brain-fart on such a ubiquitous reference.

[2] Okay, it was one of several solutions to that problem, with the added bonus of making it easy for salesmen to type the brand name of the machine ("Type Writer") by putting all of those keys in the same row. And it wasn't even the best solution of its time, it just got the most traction during the critical period when such machines were catching on, so even though other layouts may have been better, typists wanted machines laid out in the way they were already familiar with, which brings us right back to my second paragraph, just 130 years earlier. While I'm at it, I should probably point out that the Dvorak layout isn't really new, though it was a latecomer to the keyboard layout fight: it harks back to 1932.

There are 56 comments over 2 pages. (Reply.)
1 2
 
posted by [identity profile] selki.livejournal.com at 08:14am on 2006-03-20
How many of you have actually had to pry the hammers apart to make the keys go back up, getting ink on your fingers? .. And, uh, how many of you learned to touch type while you were still using that sort of typewriter?

Me, and not me (I'd typed some before, but my start to touch typing was in a typewriting class, where I think we had electric QWERTY typewriters).
 
posted by [identity profile] whc.livejournal.com at 02:08pm on 2006-03-20
I took a typing class in 9th grade, in 1974. We practiced on manual typewriters, but had to take the tests on electric.

I don't think I've used an actual typewriter to type anything longer than an envelope since 1980 when my Dad got a NEC Spinwriter for his Commodore PET. (I've actually used the Spinwriter to cut masters for a ditto machine. How's that for an interesting combination of technologies?)

When I was very young, I contributed to my Mom's decision to buy an electric typewriter. (By breaking the manual one because I liked to make the keys jam!)
 
I remember the smell that was somehow associated with years of
ink on it too. My one and only touch typing course was on a more
modern machine ... and the teacher got mad because I was looking
at the keys. I could not see the problem: I was looking back and forth
fast enough with a good memory buffer to type fast/accurately, so
what did it matter if I was not using the 'approved technique'?

Remember daisy wheel printers, I had to delay output so I would
not disturb people.
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 04:15pm on 2006-03-20
I do remember playing with, although not seriously using, typewriters; and I do remember unsticking hammers. I never got fast on a typewriter. I gained my speed first entering BASIC programs, then typing most of my uncle's doctoral thesis on an IBM AT.

I am amused that the guy who wrote the Alphagrip article thinks probably exceeding 50 wpm is acceptable. I would feel very constrained. I imagine he would too; he has the sound of a computerphile. If I could do more than 90wpm every time I try this test, he probably could too. On a QWERTY.

All that said, I have to admit that my refusal to switch is simply due to laziness, and the weirdness it would create if I had to have my own input device every different computer I used---and I use a lot of different computers.
 
posted by [identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com at 11:32pm on 2006-04-03
63 wpm on my first try - thanks for the link!

And yes, Dvorak makes a lot of sense, but it's bad enough dealing with several different Mac and PC and other keyboard layouts, as I do every time I go to work. I've no desire to scramble my brain trying to remember which alphabet layout I'm using, too.
 
posted by [identity profile] koshmom.livejournal.com at 05:12pm on 2006-03-20
I learned to type on an old keyboard where the hammers got stuck. And then I took 2 years of typing class in high school: first year was manual typewriter (aka "hammers") and the 2nd was electric typewriters, which had half the class using the "hammer" style electric typewriter, and the other half using IBM Selectric typewriters (they had a little Ball that had all the letters imprinted on it). I liked the Selectric style, some preferred the "old style".
 
posted by [identity profile] weskeag.livejournal.com at 09:29pm on 2006-03-20
I started typing on a PDP-8s back in the mid 1970s, and then used a Selectric a bit, followed by CDC and Tektronix dumb terminals in the late 1970s.

When I went to Eastern Europe in the mid-1980s, I took a manual typewriter for convenience in crossing borders without raised eyebrows--I did my favorite book translation (in addition to a bunch of other stuff) on that machine. Unfortunately, the airlines mangled the typewriter on my trip home :(.

I almost never bothered with whiteout--the locally-produced variety was pretty bad. FOrtunately, the X key and / worked almost as well for insertions and deletions in double-spaced text.
 
posted by [identity profile] aliza250.livejournal.com at 04:14am on 2006-03-21
Can you imagine what would have happened if Remington had patented QWERTY?
 
posted by [identity profile] garnet-rattler.livejournal.com at 03:04am on 2006-03-22
I still have the portable (handle on case) manual Smith-Corona my parents got me sometime in late(?) grade school. And it still worked last I tried it a few years back. Every paper I wrote for far too many moons was done on it, up through second-year at university. After the first year in high school, I could get through a 25 page paper in one night and only make two or three errors. Generally, I knew the error was happening as it went in and managed to cut back on the finger power enough that I could salvage the page with an eraser, even if I was moving too fast to correct 'in flight'.

The first few keyboards I used were Designed with manual typists in mind and could take the pounding. At least one was on a card-punch, back in the ~dark ages~ (Fortran on IBM 360/370 mainframes), so one would expect that. The early IBM PCs also had Very Solid keyboards, with a heavy steel sheet in them both for weight and strength. They were repaired rather than replaced for the first several years even though it was a medium-big pain to do as All of the key-return springs tried to escape ... and often succeeded.

My typing speed is not far from where it was in high school typing class, c. 70-80 WPM, but the lighter key-press is a Great blessing. With a manual, I'd have had to quit typing Years ago; my wrists and fingers would be in too much pain. OTOH, my hands and forearms Were much stronger then, and it shows when I try to give someone a backrub now; I fade on strength and am in pain quickly, whereas ~then I could go for several hours happily (and you can ask chesuli about how I worked over her Viciously stiff shoulder one long afternoon way back then ... ;-) ).
 
posted by [identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com at 11:23pm on 2006-04-03
Me! I learned to type on typewriters, manual and electric, and yes, I've had to unjam inky lever-arms, untangle stuck typewriter ribbons (spool or cartridge), and swap type balls, too.

I've also had to justify text using a typewriter, which is a royal pain.
 
posted by [identity profile] pickledginger.livejournal.com at 11:26pm on 2006-04-03
At peak, on a soft-touch computer keyboard, my QWERTY typing speed was ... well, fast enough that I had no difficulty accurately transcribing a two-person conversation. Probably, about 120 wpm.

That, however, was before I became ill with Lyme disease, which has done odd things neurologically, and before the accident that (among other injuries) lamed my right hand/wrist. My speed now is far slower, in part because of difficulty coordinating the action of my left and right hands.
 
posted by [identity profile] fitfool.livejournal.com at 12:21am on 2006-05-17
I learned to type on a computer but I've had to use manual typewriters as well. The Dvorak layout seems to be doomed to the fate of the Metric system in the US. Clear advantages in efficiency but still unadopted due to old habits.
There are 56 comments over 2 pages. (Reply.)
1 2

Links

January

SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24
 
25
 
26
 
27
 
28
 
29
 
30
 
31