"How many of you have actually had to pry the hammers apart to make the keys go back up, getting ink on your fingers?"
Yep, that would be me, too. It was very annoying to have to deal with, but a lot more easily fixable than a problem with my computer's keyboard, which required calling Dell and getting a tech sent out.
"And, uh, how many of you learned to touch type while you were still using that sort of typewriter?"
I learned on a manual, and used it all through high school and my first attempts at college. In fact, I used it until I got my first computer in 1990. Took me about a month to adjust to the differences (not having to change ribbons, being able to do cutting and pasting without having to physically cut and paste things, being able to correct errors without having to use white-out or retype the entire page, being able to justify margins easily, stuff like that), but once I did. I didn't look back.
That said, I agree that, especially at my age, learning a new keyboard layout would be annoying, and I am not sure how long it would take for me to regain what speed I have. Then again, I had issues when the company I went with went ergonomic and the position I had used for over four decades to type was suddenly all wrong (yes I did learn to type, kinds, when I was in single digits, agewise). I did try it, but after two weeks, I found that I was not comfortable, and stuck my keyboard on the desk and there it stayed no matter how many times I was told to use the typing tray they installed (which really did nothing more than hit my knees every time I tried to sit properly, or hit me in the stomach when I moved it into typing position).
But for those who are learning now and have the option, I think that the newer boards might be a good idea, depending on a number of variables.
For example, if they learn on a Dvoark* board, but every board they use once the enter the workforce is still Remington-based, they will run into problems. And, given my corporate experience, if a company does change to Dvorak*, will they be smart and pahse it in for their new folks, or will they do what Amex did with the ergonomics and just change everything at once and expect everyone to comply with the changes? Will it allow people to switch back if they find it doesn;t work (Amex did not give people that option)?
So, it seems to me that while the original problem that Remington-based keyboards may have gone the way of various species, there are still a majority of Remington-based users for whom switching to a newer technology might cause more problems than it will cure.
* Please note that I am using Dvorak as a stand-in for all the newer data entry technologies.
I had issues when the company I went with went ergonomic and the position I had used for over four decades to type was suddenly all wrong (yes I did learn to type, kinds, when I was in single digits, agewise). I did try it, but after two weeks, I found that I was not comfortable, and stuck my keyboard on the desk and there it stayed no matter how many times I was told to use the typing tray they installed (which really did nothing more than hit my knees every time I tried to sit properly, or hit me in the stomach when I moved it into typing position).
I have no idea who you are, but we are obviously related somehow :-)
Modern ergonomics is a conspiracy to economically disadvantage the non-average-sized person. I have such tiny little paws that I can't use one of those split "ergonomic" keyboards; they make me have to hold my wrists all funny, which doesn't do anything for me to prevent RSIs.
I learned to type on both an ancient Remington and an IBM Selectric, although for a while I had an electronic typewriter, and I did switch about that time to using an Amiga 500 instead of the electronic. Later on, I alternated between a 1990-vintage generic keyboard and an old manual Olympia, which I actually owned. Now, I'm using an old IBM-brand keyboard from 1990, and I like it just fine. It's bigger and heavier than any keyboard I've had for a while, and the keys actually have some sort of tactile feedback instead of feeling squishy, which is nice. The only drawback is, it's impossible to type quietly on it. I also have a Toshiba Tecra laptop, and the only problems I have typing on it are that some of the keys are in slightly nonstandard places.
I'm resisting learning Dvorak or any others because 1) it took me 10 years to learn to touch-type fluently the first time, 2) I make my living by hammering words into a keyboard, so any reduction in my typing speed equals a reduction in my earning ability (so I can't afford the downtime), 3) I'm satisfied with my typing speed (probably as fast as the CP-related lack of fine motor control will let me) and lack of RSIs, 4) I'm like the poster upthread who said she can touch-type in the dark, which I can too. I get a lot of mileage from that when using the laptop in bed, let me tell you... *grin*
Me, OTOH, I started learning to type when I was about 13, so I've only been doing it for 18 years now. :D
"Modern ergonomics is a conspiracy to economically disadvantage the non-average-sized person."
What's really annoying about that, as if the mere fact of it weren't bad enough, is that in the 1980s there were folks doing ergonomics right, and "ergonomic" usually meant "adjustable in all sorts of different directions and dimensions to accomodate the big differences between human bodies". Is there anyone still doing that, or is it all just "we made it a lot better than old-fashioned stuff for the Average Person but making it adjustable to everyone else was too expensive so we'll settle for printing 'Ergonomic' on the box" thing nowadays?
As for touch-typing in the dark, that's when I really miss having the function keys down the left side, where God intended them to be, instead of across the top. It's so much easier to find the right one that way (and when it really mattered a hell of a lot was when I touch-typed WordPerfect, never thinking about which function key meant "underline", just thinking "underline" or "bold" or "indent" or whatever and having my pinkie flick out to the right function key -- can't do that when they're across the top).
Well, at Amex, ergonomic meant whatever the engineers decided was right to reduce our getting sued for repetitve stress injuries. And if the ergonomic solution was not comfortable for someone (for whatever reason), then that person was just SOL.
I, too, know dglenn from cons. If you remember the "Discon II Sexy Back T-Shirts" that was pretty much my contribution to the bid, as well as the idea of the "Theme Bid Party." (I'm from the DC area.) But I have since gafiated, mostly due to having gotten married. Not that The Hubby (tm) isn't fannish; it's that I got into LARPing, *&* a primary motive of my avid con-going was to find a husband :-)
I, too, know dglenn from cons. If you remember the "Discon III Sexy Back T-Shirts" that was pretty much my contribution to the bid, as well as the idea of the "Theme Bid Party." (I'm from the DC area.) But I have since gafiated, mostly due to having gotten married. Not that The Hubby (tm) isn't fannish; it's that I got into LARPing, *&* a primary motive of my avid con-going was to find a husband :-)
I've never understood the typing trays. When they installed them at my current employer, I asked the installer to skip my office. He pointed out that it could be rotated 180 degrees, so it's under the back of the desk instead of the front, so I let him install it. I don't think anyone here uses the tray.
Ours just slid back under the desks, and hit you in the knees all the time. And I was told that I would be fired if I removed it (after months of trying to get the engineers to remove it). So I repositioned my puter so that the keyboard was nowhere near the corner of the cubicle the typing tray was set up in.
(no subject)
Yep, that would be me, too. It was very annoying to have to deal with, but a lot more easily fixable than a problem with my computer's keyboard, which required calling Dell and getting a tech sent out.
"And, uh, how many of you learned to touch type while you were still using that sort of typewriter?"
I learned on a manual, and used it all through high school and my first attempts at college. In fact, I used it until I got my first computer in 1990. Took me about a month to adjust to the differences (not having to change ribbons, being able to do cutting and pasting without having to physically cut and paste things, being able to correct errors without having to use white-out or retype the entire page, being able to justify margins easily, stuff like that), but once I did. I didn't look back.
That said, I agree that, especially at my age, learning a new keyboard layout would be annoying, and I am not sure how long it would take for me to regain what speed I have. Then again, I had issues when the company I went with went ergonomic and the position I had used for over four decades to type was suddenly all wrong (yes I did learn to type, kinds, when I was in single digits, agewise). I did try it, but after two weeks, I found that I was not comfortable, and stuck my keyboard on the desk and there it stayed no matter how many times I was told to use the typing tray they installed (which really did nothing more than hit my knees every time I tried to sit properly, or hit me in the stomach when I moved it into typing position).
But for those who are learning now and have the option, I think that the newer boards might be a good idea, depending on a number of variables.
For example, if they learn on a Dvoark* board, but every board they use once the enter the workforce is still Remington-based, they will run into problems. And, given my corporate experience, if a company does change to Dvorak*, will they be smart and pahse it in for their new folks, or will they do what Amex did with the ergonomics and just change everything at once and expect everyone to comply with the changes? Will it allow people to switch back if they find it doesn;t work (Amex did not give people that option)?
So, it seems to me that while the original problem that Remington-based keyboards may have gone the way of various species, there are still a majority of Remington-based users for whom switching to a newer technology might cause more problems than it will cure.
* Please note that I am using Dvorak as a stand-in for all the newer data entry technologies.
(no subject)
I have no idea who you are, but we are obviously related somehow :-)
(no subject)
I learned to type on both an ancient Remington and an IBM Selectric, although for a while I had an electronic typewriter, and I did switch about that time to using an Amiga 500 instead of the electronic. Later on, I alternated between a 1990-vintage generic keyboard and an old manual Olympia, which I actually owned. Now, I'm using an old IBM-brand keyboard from 1990, and I like it just fine. It's bigger and heavier than any keyboard I've had for a while, and the keys actually have some sort of tactile feedback instead of feeling squishy, which is nice. The only drawback is, it's impossible to type quietly on it. I also have a Toshiba Tecra laptop, and the only problems I have typing on it are that some of the keys are in slightly nonstandard places.
I'm resisting learning Dvorak or any others because 1) it took me 10 years to learn to touch-type fluently the first time, 2) I make my living by hammering words into a keyboard, so any reduction in my typing speed equals a reduction in my earning ability (so I can't afford the downtime), 3) I'm satisfied with my typing speed (probably as fast as the CP-related lack of fine motor control will let me) and lack of RSIs, 4) I'm like the poster upthread who said she can touch-type in the dark, which I can too. I get a lot of mileage from that when using the laptop in bed, let me tell you... *grin*
Me, OTOH, I started learning to type when I was about 13, so I've only been doing it for 18 years now. :D
(no subject)
What's really annoying about that, as if the mere fact of it weren't bad enough, is that in the 1980s there were folks doing ergonomics right, and "ergonomic" usually meant "adjustable in all sorts of different directions and dimensions to accomodate the big differences between human bodies". Is there anyone still doing that, or is it all just "we made it a lot better than old-fashioned stuff for the Average Person but making it adjustable to everyone else was too expensive so we'll settle for printing 'Ergonomic' on the box" thing nowadays?
As for touch-typing in the dark, that's when I really miss having the function keys down the left side, where God intended them to be, instead of across the top. It's so much easier to find the right one that way (and when it really mattered a hell of a lot was when I touch-typed WordPerfect, never thinking about which function key meant "underline", just thinking "underline" or "bold" or "indent" or whatever and having my pinkie flick out to the right function key -- can't do that when they're across the top).
(no subject)
(no subject)
I'm Deb, a filker from Brooklyn, New York, and I know
(no subject)
If you remember the "Discon II Sexy Back T-Shirts" that was
pretty much my contribution to the bid, as well as the idea
of the "Theme Bid Party." (I'm from the DC area.)
But I have since gafiated, mostly due to having gotten
married. Not that The Hubby (tm) isn't fannish; it's that I
got into LARPing, *&* a primary motive of my avid con-going
was to find a husband :-)
(no subject)
If you remember the "Discon III Sexy Back T-Shirts" that was
pretty much my contribution to the bid, as well as the idea
of the "Theme Bid Party." (I'm from the DC area.)
But I have since gafiated, mostly due to having gotten
married. Not that The Hubby (tm) isn't fannish; it's that I
got into LARPing, *&* a primary motive of my avid con-going
was to find a husband :-)
(no subject)
(no subject)