eftychia: Me in poufy shirt, kilt, and Darth Vader mask, playing a bouzouki (vader)
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I haven't looked at my own web site much recently -- it's also overdue for a round of edits that I keep putting off -- but tonight I typed in one of my URLs to make sure that what I'd written down for someone I met at the nail salon was right (I still have to remind myself to use the new location). And I was horrified to discover that my musical instruments page appeared to have gotten corrupted somehow! The last two lines of the bodhran section appearing between baryton and bowed psaltery but without the bohran <h2> heading or the rest of the text, a fragment of the krumhorn entry similarly standing by itself, and, I eventually realized, some instuments missing entirely! Aiiieee -- how long had it been like this?

At the moment, due entirely to round tuit acquisition failure, there are two additional entire copies of my web site currently accessible (which I need to replace with redirect pages Real Soon Now, but ...) so I looked at the same page in each of those, hoping to find a clean copy to re-upload. Alas and alack, they were corrupted in the same way. I fired up 'vi' on the Panix copy, and ... uh ... yeah, those quotes are closed; uh huh, there's the closing tag for that href; yup, the <img> tag has its closing angle-bracket; is that comment terminated? Yes, yes it is ... uh ... and I couldn't see what was wrong.

[livejournal.com profile] realinterrobang had phoned me, so she heard my exclamation of dismay and asked for the URL. She saw the same thing, so it wasn't just my computer. What browser was she using? Firefox 1.0.5 (under Windows, I think?). I was using Firefox 1.5.0.7 under Linux. Wait, wait, lemme look at this in Konqueror. And Lynx. And Opera (gotta wait for it to reload the pages I'd been in the middle of the last time I shut Opera down). How's it look in those?

It looks fine in each of those. Meanwhile on the other end of the phone, a similar experiment with similar results, using MSIE (I've forgotten the absurdly long version number), except that the drawings didn't show up until she hit 'reload'. Can I try it in IE? Let's fire up VNC and see what browsers (other than the obvious copy of Opera ("obvious" because that's my main browser under all the operating systems I use except for Mac Classic, where it takes second place to iCab)) the Win2K machine has on it. Netscape Communicator (4.7) and IE 5.50.4807.2300. The page looked fine in both of those as well. Oh, some browsers insist on drawing a blue rectangle around images that are links and others don't (and for obvious reasons Lynx did not display the images), but all the expected elements of the page are present and in the right order in every browser except, so far, two versions of Firefox.

I think this warrants a simultaneous "*whew*" and "WTF? WTFingF?!". Right? Firefox? Not the browser I'd pick as most likely to glitch on a page everybody else can handle!


So if I might be permitted to impose upon a few of you for a favour, could y'all take a look at http://www.dglenn.org/defs/inst.html if nobody else with the same browser has already commented, and let me know what browser you're using and: whether you see headings and text for ashiko and cornamuse, and whether there are complete entries with headings for bodhran and krummhorn or just fragments seemingly attached to other instruments? I'm interested in browsers I don't have handy, such as Safari, and I'm interested in whether any versions of Firefox do display the page correctly. I'd appreciate the data.


Possibly a clue: when I select "view page source" in Firefox, it looks like the entire file is showing up, but the syntax highlighting in the source window seems to be saying that the "-->" end-of-comment strings are sometimes being correctly interpreted as terminating a comment, and sometimes overlooked with the comment being "closed" by the end of the next comment, or the one after that, or by some random <a> or </p> tag.

I'm scared to look at the rest of my web site in Firefox now. Tho' I hadn't noticed it obviously misbehaving on any other sites on the web (that is, if it left out entire chunks of content on other sites, it picked stuff I didn't already know would be there and it didn't leave odd fragments lying around the page. Maybe my HTML comments are magic, anti-flaming-vulpine comments that the HTML tag salesman gave me by mistake.

Maybe I should go 'od -ah' or 'hexdump -C' the file and see whether there's anything different about the lines that confuse Firefox. But maybe I should do that in the morning, as I'd planned to be asleep three hours ago. That's when I'll go hunting for my HTML-validator bookmarks as well.

I'd planned to write about my day. Maybe I'll get to that later. Or maybe I'll just count on a puzzle being more interesting anyway.

There are 23 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] redaxe.livejournal.com at 09:39am on 2006-12-16
Also mising Ashiko etc. in Firefox 2.0 under Windows 2000 Pro. Source also appears to show Ashiko as a comment.

I dunno. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
 
posted by [identity profile] redaxe.livejournal.com at 09:39am on 2006-12-16
*headdesk* Can't spell. "missing", of course.
 
posted by [identity profile] pedropadrao.livejournal.com at 03:58pm on 2006-12-16
Yeah, Firefox 2.0 does not get along well with this; neither does IE 7, really.
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 10:50am on 2006-12-16
On Opera 9.01 build 8552, Finnish, looks correct to me. Mild formatting issue: on some window sizes the bombard gets floated to the right apparently due to the bodhran image.

Also, under kantele you may want to change the o" and a" -digraphs into the respective html-umlaut-entities.
ext_4917: (Default)
posted by [identity profile] hobbitblue.livejournal.com at 12:31pm on 2006-12-16
Mozilla 1.7.3 - whole chunks are missing, the bodhran is just one line, the ashiko and other things I can read in the source are conspicuos by their absence, and then it gets about halfway down the page and just stops with a comment line.... I think the comment things are screwing it up, which is strange. And yep, some of the images have blue boxes around and some not.
 
posted by [identity profile] jmthane.livejournal.com at 01:26pm on 2006-12-16
Firefox 1.5.0.8

No entries for bombard, ashiko, bodhran (except for the last line), bouzouki, cittern, cornamuse, dulcian, frame drum, flute, kantele, krummhorn (except for the last two sentences), oud, plucked psaltery, sackbut, vielle, viola d'amore, violoncello, vulcan lyre. And the mandolin is not in alphabetic order.
 
posted by [identity profile] herveus.livejournal.com at 01:57pm on 2006-12-16
It looked fine in Safari. It looked not so fine in Firefox 1.5.0.8 Mac.
 
posted by [identity profile] acroyear70.livejournal.com at 02:22pm on 2006-12-16
The problem is in your comments headers. technically, you're not supposed to have "--" show up anywhere in a comment except as the comment terminator, if (as firefox tries by default now), your page is assumed to be xml-based html (i.e., xhtml).

replace your long strings of ------- with ======= instead, so the only -- are in the comment start and end tags, and it'll work fine. i've already tried it on a downloaded copy and firefox rendered it perfectly after that.

the other option is to muck about with your DOCTYPE header to tell firefox your page is traditional html, but that may involve more research for getting the doctype string absolutely right.
 
posted by [identity profile] darwiniacat.livejournal.com at 02:49pm on 2006-12-16
I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like. There is linked text at the top and then links to the instruments, but most of those links to the instruments don't do anything when I click on them.

I am using Firefox 2.0, NoScript 1.1.4.5.061206, and CookieSafe 1.1.5 all of which I enabled for your site, plus various other extensions that I don't think made any difference to viewing it, but who knows. If you want a complete list, for reference of what extensions might effect other extensions in viewing, (there are sometimes conflicts, and I have the newest versions) let me know.
 
posted by [identity profile] leiacat.livejournal.com at 04:41pm on 2006-12-16
Netscape 7.2 (yeah, I know, who uses that in this day and age).

No ashiko. No cornamuse. Bodhran and krummhorn broken.

Netscape 8.1.2, likewise.
madfilkentist: My cat Florestan (gray shorthair) (Default)
posted by [personal profile] madfilkentist at 04:59pm on 2006-12-16
Looking at highlighted source in Firefox 2.0 helps to show where the problem is. What I'm seeing is that the VIOLIN comment is being interpreted as not being closed. a later "a" tag mysteriously closes it. But then the same thing happens with the VULCAN LYRE comment. So parts of your HTML are being eaten as comments.

I'd go with the suggestion of removing all sequences of multiple hyphens from your comments. That's probably what's confusing Firefox.
 
posted by [identity profile] fidhle.livejournal.com at 05:42pm on 2006-12-16
Looks fine in Safari.
 
posted by [identity profile] realinterrobang.livejournal.com at 07:02pm on 2006-12-16
I was viewing it with Firefox 1.0.7 on Windows XP (not Pro), SP2 installed. The version of IE I was using is 6.0.2900 and a bunch of other gobbledygook. It seems to be rendering fine, now, including the images (as of 2:00PM EST on 16 Dec.).
 
posted by [identity profile] realinterrobang.livejournal.com at 09:20pm on 2006-12-16
No, I take that back. It's still broken.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 09:12pm on 2006-12-16
Broken in Camino 1.0 for the Mac (a Firefox fork)
 
posted by [identity profile] eviltomble.livejournal.com at 09:27pm on 2006-12-16
Hey there,
just to warn you, I'm tired and on the verge of falling over from sleep debt, so I'm not all that coherent and struggling to spell, etc. But:
Yes, Firehamster 1.0.something, the l;ines of one of the entries appares stuck between two other entries you described, just like that. I'm glad you described it, because I wouldn't notice it without reading theorouh the hwole page and I'm in no state to do that ATM. Page info thing says it's in "STandards Compliance mode", which is interesting bmecause I thought maybe it might have been in a glitch-fixing mode (Firehamster fixes lots of peoples' unsepakeabley broken HTML as I'm sure you know, which means that it might maybe unfix working HTML perhaps, I'm not sure ATM).

I did have the more helpful idea though, of feeding the page to Dillo, which (in the old version I still have) spews out all the errors that occur in a webpage. Usually reames of the damn things, the way most people code. As the page loaded, I got.... nothing. The page loaded fine. I looked, and there wa nothing peculiar around the areas that had gone wrong, so I checked the source then, and I didn't see anything weird there either. Then I noticed that actually YES it had printed something since I first looked.
HTML warning: line 1236, unexpected closing tag: </body>. -- expected </a>


Now presumabley that means that the actual error isn't at line 1236 but somewhere earleier where you didn't somehow match ancohr tags, or something, but I dunno. Maybe also it might have been all the P tags you closed, I don't know how commonplace that is, maybe it upset something *shrug* Don't ask me, I'm just guessing :D

Anyway, good luck :) I'm off to bed, or soon anyway.
 
posted by [identity profile] eviltomble.livejournal.com at 09:34pm on 2006-12-16
Sorry, just after posting I looke at the source again a bit more, and I see (roughtly)

a href=krumhorn ahref=krumhorn H2krumhorn, /h2 /a

(with angle brackets removed becuase all that & gt; crap gives me a headeaceh ATM)
*bows*:)
Ok, stick a fork in me I'm done
 
posted by [identity profile] syntonic-comma.livejournal.com at 02:36am on 2006-12-17
Firefox web-browser logoBroken here, as described above:
Gecko/20061010 Firefox/2.0
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1
Mac OS X 10.4.8

iCab 2.9.1 – demo expired.
 
posted by [identity profile] elbowfetish.livejournal.com at 03:31am on 2006-12-17
You need a better HTML/XML generator. GUI tools are your friend.

The only reason that page kinda works in some browsers is because they're very tolerant of ambiguous and broken code. The W3C markup validator finds 134 errors right away.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dglenn.org%2Fdefs%2Finst.html+

Your CSS is full of problems also.

I couldn't do my link check, your robots.txt forbids it.

You should always check that your web page creator hasn't let you leave any errors in your HTML or CSS. After that, it's easy to test for actual compatibility with different browsers. There's a service that simulates being on different OS and browser combinations (so you don't have to buy a Mac).

 
posted by [identity profile] eviltomble.livejournal.com at 08:46am on 2006-12-17
Hmm, looking again whilst actually awake, I note that yes, Firehamster has syntax highlighting in its source viewer (Dillo doesn't, but I won't fault it for that), and yes, lots of the comments seem to be very confusing to it. Where it considers them to stop and start seems entirely arbitrary! I don't think the extra [A] tag would make much difference to that.
OTOH I did wonder about the peculiar PICS tag at the top, which seems to have a \ instead of an opening " in it; that might upset things a tad. I had to look up the PICS label format in case that was how they were meant to look, but no, it is clearly a typo. I presume the SS~0000 otoh is correct, it looks vaguely like the sort of thing they use *shrug*

And in answer to your other questions which I missed last night due to very minimal reading comprehension,
-No, I don't see Ashiko and Cornamuse with firefox, and the page source shows those commented out (amongst numerous others)
-Yes, only parts of Bodhran and Krumhorn appear, sat between other entries; same parts are those which shown uncommented according to the source highlighter
-Firefox also shows a couple other entries missing, such as Bombard and Bouzouki (which I think was implied by your description of where Krumhorn appeared)
-Dillo shows the whole page fine AFAICT, in case I wasn't clear about that.

Having said all that, I tried editing a copy of your page to fix the extra A tag and the PICS label, and viewing my copy through Firehamster (sorry if you get dubious referrers in your server logs, I didn't change the image URLs in it). Sure enough.... my changes made no difference whatsoever to it. So in the name of empirical evidence, I investigated the other commenters' theory that it was down to --s in the comments via:

sed -e 's/-\{3,\}/==/g' inst.html >inst_decom.html

Yep, they're right, it fixes it perfectly AFAICT. Chalk one up for evidence-based science over "common sense" and "Well it's obvious that it must be that" reasoning :D Hmm, now I look, I see that Acroyear actually tried it himself too, so I guess that wasn't quite so helpful after all, never mind :) Maybe we can say that means it's a repeatable experiment ;)
(Incidentally, anybody know how to make SED convert the exact number of matched characters, other than using the y// type operators, which aren't so selective?)
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 10:38pm on 2006-12-17
Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Redhat; no ashiko, no cornamuse; no bodhran or krummhorn but random sentences and one paragraph for psaltery attached under "lute."
 
posted by [identity profile] garnet-rattler.livejournal.com at 07:09am on 2006-12-18
Using Firefox 1.5.0.3, more than half of the instrument links do nothing and the text doesn't show on the page.

From the comments I skimmed, I'd go with trying changing out the -- in the comments first and see if that fixes even some of it. It has the advantage of being do-able fast with a find-replace macro.
 
posted by [identity profile] chaosrose.livejournal.com at 09:34am on 2006-12-18
looks fine in Safari 2, mac OS X (10.4.7).

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