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Yesterday, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
cellio put into better words than I've
managed, an explanation very similar to something I've often tried
to say (and, unsurprisingly, takes the insight a couple of steps
farther as well):
"I believe in God because I have observed things about the world, and had experiences, for which I have found no explanation that is more satisfying.
"I cannot prove to you that God exists, nor am I inclined to try. When people tried such proofs on me they were ineffective. At some level belief in God isn't rational -- yet I, a rational person, believe. You might argue that what I think I see is all in my head, some complex psychological effect. That's fine; you're free to believe that. If that were true, and I called that effect 'belief in God' instead of whatever you think it is, and it resulted in me having a more satisfying life, does it matter?
"Belief in God has to be personal; it cannot be meaningfully imposed from without. That's a big part of what's wrong with some fundamentalists: they seek to compel. That trick never works; you can compel behavior but not belief.
"Because belief in God has to be personal, I cannot offer a meaningful proof. Even if I share the specific effects I have seen [...] who's to say that what I see as significant will be significant to you?"
--
I choose things to quote for a variety of reasons, not just quotes I agree with. But this quote in particular is a case of "she speaks for me," or near enough.
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* Indirect support, as in the continuing Lack of data and/or explanations on some items, is possible, though never certain.
Faith, at least in the form of a belief in God, Starts with the premise that god is a singularity, a one-off, non-repeatable being, whose actions cannot be predicted by anyone else. That takes it, and all the associated miracles, etc., out of the realm of science straight-away. This should be Celebrated by the faithful, since it means science will Never disprove [nor prove, for that matter, thereby eliminating any need for, or value to, faith] their beliefs.
Belief is a lovely thing and wonderful for those who like it. Trying to force it on anyone else is like trying to feed meat to a vegan; at best, you will distress them enough to counter any possible benefit of your message. At worst, you'll have to kill them to get through ... In no circumstances have you, or they, come out ahead. Generally, the nominal faithful have to contravene their own ostensible principles in order to force the conversion.
An old, old friend of mine is a very solid, dedicated Orthodox Christian. He would have long ago been drafted as a priest (the Orthodox draft you; you don't usually go in on your own) except that his wife declares that she needs him more. He figured out many years ago that trying to force people would backfire and bring about the very persecutions that have dogged every theocracy and pushy religious group in history.
Since he himself believes passionately, partly because it has helped him deal with his own internal ~demons, he tries to show its value by example. Now, if you ask him, you'll definitely get an earfull. But otherwise, he just mentions things that have helped him that are relevent in a particular circumstance and doesn't harp on interminably like those who are insecure about their faith.
I've always believed (since early grade school, anyway) that proselytizing is a symptom of insecurity; the more insecure, the more fervent the effort. Islam is the most obvious in this area, with its death penalty for converting away and constant fatwahs to convert at sword-point, but various forms of christianity often haven't done much better, especially further back in time. The Jews and the Amish are good examples of groups that are less insecure and thereby better citizens of the world.
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Also, like I've said about my Grandmother's praying for my nephew, and like
I have been lucky that most of my friends are fairly reasonable and rational when it comes to faith and don't try to push it on me, and I appreciate that. And I respect your faith in return. Though I don't respect the faith of many so-called Christians who certainly don't walk the talk.
Hope you had a happy Easter.
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I honestly didn't know when I posted it whether it would resonate with anyone or evoke "WTF?" reactions.
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