eftychia: Me in poufy shirt, kilt, and Darth Vader mask, playing a bouzouki (vader)
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My brain frequently tries to "correct" what I'm reading, trying to compensate for the frequent tpyos, mispeellings, and folks who yews a homonym that their spell-checker can't catch; often it fills in the right things, but sometimes it's just trying to race ahead of tired eyes making predictions.

This morning I just caught an interesting quirk: when reading the phrase "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity", I read 'liberty' just fine, got halfway through 'equality', saw the 'Fra' coming up beyond what I'd already focussed on, and mentally "corrected" 'equality' to 'égalité', was confused when 'fraternity' had a 'y' on the end, and had to backtrack to verify that 'liberty' did in fact end in 'y' instead of 'é'.

Now all of this happened at my normal (fairly fast) reading speed, which means it took a lot of after-the-fact analysis and some experimenting to piece together the events outlined in the preceeding paragraph. An important clue was how trying to hear the sounds of the words as I read them or to read them aloud, "liberty, equality" was easy if I was careful not to look at the next word, but if I let my eye slide over there it became a struggle not to read "equality" but hear/say "égalité" and feel as though the "liberty" before it had been an error to be corrected by backing up and starting over with "liberté" (though I suppose one could fudge a pronounciation halfway between the two).

Either this is an interesting bit of wiring in my brain, or my allergies and attendant headache are affecting me even more than I'd thought this morning. Note that while the motto, "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" does occasionally pop into my head at odd intervals, the only time I've had really intense repeated exposure to the phrase was in 10th-grade European History class *mumble* years ago. It's not like I've spent a lot of time since then handling French currency or reading essays and books on modern French history, or listening to French rhetoric (I've no idea how often the phrase comes up in speeches, but I know how often "liberty" and "liberty and justice" show up in US speeches). ... Then again, there are various random phrases that are as likely (or more likely) to pop out of my mouth in French or Greek than in English despite my being almost barely at a "conversational with lots of pointing and shrugging" level in French and not even that good with Greek.

In case anyone's curious, I tripped over the phrase in question in "Washington diary: Land of ideas" (How different might our lives look if the US had never been founded?), which [livejournal.com profile] filkerdave linked to.

There are 6 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] madbodger.livejournal.com at 06:41pm on 2007-05-03
I think about this every time [livejournal.com profile] fizzygeek is having her Liberté brand yoghurt.
 
posted by [identity profile] leiacat.livejournal.com at 06:41pm on 2007-05-03
Funnily enough, when I got to reading your "Liberty, equality" written here for the first time, my brain auto-completed "fraternity" as the next thing to expect, and while not subsituting French in the same way as yours, I most definitely echoed the phrase in French in the back of my brain before I was done reading it.

I suppose for me it could be a part of my "interpreter-brain" - the piece of my psyche which sometimes when confronted with an expression tries its hand at translating it into my other language just to see if it can, or which randomly maps to a phrase in another language like this does.
 
posted by [identity profile] realinterrobang.livejournal.com at 08:41pm on 2007-05-03
the piece of my psyche which sometimes when confronted with an expression tries its hand at translating it into my other language just to see if it can

Wow, someone else has that too. I never quite know which language mine is going to come out with. It seems like certain words in certain languages are closer to hand than others.

Glenn, you're not as bad in French as you think you are.
 
posted by [identity profile] leiacat.livejournal.com at 09:19pm on 2007-05-03
I think it's a side effect of being bi(or more)lingual. Things have a slight tendency to pop up in whichever language you use more for those things, but if you're in translator mode, you'll translate whether you like to or not.
 
posted by [identity profile] kolraashgadol.livejournal.com at 02:50am on 2007-05-04
The real question is whether when you see "I think, therefore I am" your brain fills in "Je pense donc je suis."
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 05:47pm on 2007-05-05
Actually, for me that one usually gets shunted to Latin, a language I only know a couple of useful phrases in (such as, "Ita, nos habemos non ullas bananas."). Then again, in high school I wrote a play which has a character musing, "Cogito ergo ... sumthing or other; I forget. Ah! Cogito ergo oblivio!" (Hmm. So why is "Cogito ergo sum" repeated more often -- at least where I encounter it -- than Je pense donc je suis"? Did Descartes publish in Latin, or did folks quoting him later decide to apply the quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur principle?)

But every so often I catch "Il-y-a..." about to come out of my mouth just in time to put it back into the same language as the rest of the sentence it's introducing... (Not an issue if I'm standing next to a Francophone, of course.) And there are a few French words and phrases that get sprinkled into English that, if I'm a little tired, will flip my brain into French mode briefly so that the next couple of sentences get dragged along. And when there were television commercials for the Renault "Le Car", every damned time I saw one I thought, "Wait, I thought 'car' was feminine; shouldn't that be 'La Voiture' instead of "Le Car'?"

And I can't hear "In the beginning was the Word ..." (John 1:1) without echoing, "εν αρχη εστιν ο λογος, και ο λογος εστιν προς τον θεον, και ο λογος εστιν τον θεον," in my head (though occasionally the Modern Greek form of the verb pops up -- replace "εστιν" with "ην").

Greek roots are everywhere in English, so if my brain kept trying to change gears every time I encountered one it would be terribly distracting, but there are a few roots that grab my attention (especially θανατος', 'βαρυς', 'ταχυς', 'νοος' (as in "noosphere"), just off the top of my head) ... and sometimes I find myself searching for an English word with a particular Greek root (this happens a lot with 'γιγνωσκω', which does come into English in the words 'gnome' and 'know', but I keep wanting other related words ...)

And despite decades trying to get used to it, I still twitch at seeing all those '-ein' entries in etymologies -- when I was learning Greek we always looked up verbs by the first-person singular indicative instead of the infinitive that is the convention in English ('-ω' instead of '-ειν'), so looking at the etymology of 'ballistic', for example, I keep thinking it should list 'βαλλω' instead of 'βαλλειν') The same thing with Latin verbs doesn't seem as jarring because I never actually studied Latin, but still strikes me as odd when I think about it too much.


Er ... then again, (thinking back to the "il-y-a" example earlier, I also find myself thinking '∃' and '∀' in verbal streams of thought, not just thinking in symbols or preparing to write something down. This phenomenon is not as intense now as it was when I was in high school, and had mental pronounciations for '⊥', '||', '≅', '∴', etc.. So, either this is not just a "which languages I now a little of" thing, or any meme I know a character for gets incorporated into my concept of aural language. Hmm. Additional omphaloskepsis is probably warranted.

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