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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 05:26am on 2007-10-11

"What we've learned is that globalization [...] creates a lot of problems for a lot of people, and it's tough to deal with, but it has moved the standards of living, not only for the United States and our trading partners in the developed world, but hundreds of millions of people have been moved out from the developing world into middle class, or lower middle class, standards of living, which used to be the monopoly of the developed world. And that's terrific." -- former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, 2007-10-09, on the CBS television show The Late Show with David Letterman

There are 8 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] smallship1.livejournal.com at 09:36am on 2007-10-11
Well, they had to move the people "out from the developing world" so Wal-Mart and MacDonald's could build all over it.

Seriously, whom is he trying to kid?
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 06:59pm on 2007-10-11
Wal-Mart and McDonald's don't need to displace that many people to build their stuff. Rather, it's in their interests to "move people into the middle class" to build their markets. Poor, developing-world people don't buy from McD's & Wal-Mart. 'Elevate' them into (a developed-world vision of) the middle class, and they become part of the McD's/Wal-Mart target market; the market gets bigger. So they need to bump a few people out of the way, but they want to make many people better off (assuming they see the "enlightened self interest" angle the same way I do, which I'm betting they do since there's so much potential money there).

So he may or may not be trying to kid anyone.

Of course, there's a west-centric notion of the meaning of "better off" here, which may be correctly applied but I'm a little too enmeshed in it to instantly shift gears and assess that ... er, maybe "objectively" isn't quite the right word, so let's try "metasubjectively". And there's the question of how much worse off the people hurt by globalization are, and how few: even if the moral calculus there is comfortable (which for many people it will be), are the gains to the larger number enough to justify the harm if you subtract the gains-to-Wal-Mart from the equation?

How do you quantify the harm done by loss of (or probably, in most cases, just some dramatic changes to) a culture in the good:harm calculation? I'm thinking that it requires finding out what the folks in each altered culture think about it, because assuming that westernizing their culture by making them rich enough to be targets and sending in the megacapitalists is "harm" is just as blindly patronizing as assuming that making them 'more like us' is an unequivocal good.

So what I see in Greenspan's statement is that he's pointing out that in addition to the losers there are potential winners other than the big winners at the top who are driving this thing; at the same time is see the creation of those small-winners as ultimately being part of the big-winners win, and I see a lot of unquestioned (or at least un-discussed that night) assumptions about values and change.
 
posted by [identity profile] realinterrobang.livejournal.com at 07:06am on 2007-10-12
No, it's not building their stuff that's necessarily moving people out, it's other things, like Coke plants in India using up all the groundwater, and contaminating what's left, or, to use another example in India, the huge inhabited "black zone" around Bhopal, where by rights, nobody should be living...

The thing is, there are at least two schools of thought as to what "globalisation" even means, and I'm sitting in the other camp from what Alan Greenspan means by it. (The guy is pretty much purely evil, and I'd feel bad about myself if I came down on the same side of any major issue as him, sorry.) I'm into "globalisation" as meaning fair trade, sustainable development, appropriate technology, international localisation, and international decentralisation, as well as a gradual winding-down of overconsumption here at home as standards of living equalise around the globe.

That is not what Alan Greenspan means by it. He's indisputably on the side of the "big [large-sized] winners," and I don't even think there should be "big winners." There is no real reason whatsoever these days to even have transnational corporations, rather than tightly-integrated, decentralised networks of small suppliers and sellers. (Thank you Linus Torvalds for proving to the world that it is possible to run a massively-complex, large, distributed organisation worldwide and still produce a coordinated project made up of small components -- General Motors take note.)

As Rustin says, "A corporation should be a privilege, not a right," and I'll be the first to tell you that the only time I ever support the death penalty is when you call it "dechartering," so that should give you the rest of the context...
 
posted by [identity profile] kolraashgadol.livejournal.com at 03:35pm on 2007-10-11
*snort* what 's that expression about mouth moving = lies?
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 06:26pm on 2007-10-11
The two things that intrigued me about the statement when I first heard it were a) if he's right, it's an interesting perpective on the trouble globalization causes some (many) people, in line with other comments he made about "creative destruction" in general, and b) there are so many unspoken, possibly unexamined, assuptions buried in there that he's got a lot of possible ways to be wrong even if he's not being at all dishonest. (The idea that it might all be intentional lies & spin is there but somewhat less interesting to me than the other bits I just mentioned.)
 
posted by [identity profile] scooterbird.livejournal.com at 06:08pm on 2007-10-11
I have no idea what he's saying here.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 06:33pm on 2007-10-11
I'm parsing it as "it hurts people but it helps more people than it hurts" with an unspoken "the needs of the many oughtweigh the needs of the few". (As I mentiond in another comment above, it contains more unspoken assumptions than that.)
 
posted by [identity profile] scooterbird.livejournal.com at 02:21am on 2007-10-12
Well, indeed...but the point was that I think he's speaking through his hat, here. We've heard of the wonders of globalization from Greenspan and his ilk for a long time. I don't doubt that some have been helped, and maybe some who are not part of his global elite, but all else points to the fact that it is simply the latest strip-and-shaft manuever by the industrialized nations on the Global South.

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