eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 05:24am on 2013-08-01

From The Proteus Operation by James P. Hogan (b. 1941-06-27, d. 2010-07-12) (1985, Bantam Books, New York):

"Truth, of course, pays no attention to political needs," Gustav went on, "or to the needs of any other kind of ideology for that matter. What is true will remain true regardless of all the wishful thinking in the world that would have it otherwise. And the purpose of science is to discover what is absolute and unchangeable, inherent in the fabric of the universe and completely uninfluenced by man's passions or by whether or not we even exist at all."

"You make it sound almost like a religion," Cassidy commented.

Gustav nodded. "Albert Einstein -- you've heard of him, no doubt. I saw him once from a distance, you know. Einstein said that scientific research is the only thing that qualifies as a religion. If religion claims to deal with the absolute and the universal, then what could be more absolute and universal than the things revealed through mathematics and physics? But the systems that are called religions, what do they concern themselves with? Words that a person utters -- which god he thinks he talks to. Whom somebody might choose to make love with. What books he reads. Trivial things, things that concern the behaviour of people. There's nothing absolute or universal about that! Who do people think they are to imagine that the universe cares about their antics on this little speck of mud? Only people care about such things. But they persuade themselves that their little problems have cosmic importance." Gustav threw up his hands in a gesture of exasperation. "And these are the people who in the same breath accuse scientists of being arrogant! I ask you! Did you ever hear such an absurdity?"


[OTOH, universal absolutes are not the only things important to people -- religion's focus on people-stuff is useful to many[*] people. But I do love the "what could be more absolute and universal than the things revealed through mathematics and physics?" part.]

[*] Obviously not all people -- religion can be a potent tool but it's not the only applicable tool for how-people-might-live stuff. Still, it's a tool that suits me.]

There are 5 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)
posted by [personal profile] minoanmiss at 03:37pm on 2013-08-01
Oooh, I like this. (Among other things it speaks to the ongoing and perennially unsuccessful attempts to find "scientific" ways to deem one lineage of people "inferior" to another."
eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 06:10pm on 2013-08-01

And that's no accident -- the scene takes place in Nazi Germany. Here's the bit just before where I started quoting:

"We are both scientists, you see," Gustav said. "I'm a chemist. Marga used to teach anthropology at Leipzig."

"I resigned because of the lunatic racial doctrines we were expected to teach because they suited current political needs," she said. "'Nazi Science'! It's the poison they are pouring into the minds of young people that we are prepared to fight against."

So, good catch.

Edited Date: 2013-08-01 06:19 pm (UTC)
corylea: A woman gazing at the sky (Default)
posted by [personal profile] corylea at 09:52pm on 2013-08-01
I no longer remember which one it was, but there's a James P. Hogan book in which Earth-based humans are in a race with people on another planet, and the people on the competing planet started religions on Earth ... in order to SLOW US DOWN.

That always seemed to me like something that should be true, even if it wasn't. :-)

eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 11:20pm on 2013-08-01

That sounds like the Giants series, revealed a few books along. I don't remember which book it was first hinted in or which it was finally revealed in -- I'm pretty sure those weren't in the same novel, but I read one of those N-in-one volumes so I can't even say for sure which novel I was reading when.

siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 11:43pm on 2013-08-01
If religion claims to deal with the absolute and the universal

That seems to me to be a really big "if". And to whatever extent it does, the absolute and universal seems the least part of religion.

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