eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (cyhmn)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 05:24am on 2022-01-24

"Members of the gender critical movement are increasingly sharing anti-trans content from members of the far right. In addition, members of the far-right are showing growing appreciation for the gender critical movement. This growing accord between the far right and the gender critical movement over their anti-trans stances is a worrying trend that suggests both a mainstreaming of the far right, using transphobia as a ticket into other spaces, as well as a radicalisation of people who would otherwise not praise open fascists.

[...]

"This syndication of far-right figures and sources by the gender critical movement is not an isolated incident. Trans Safety Network have previously documented this convergence, and noted when mainstream gender critical figures have shared information from far right sources, including their direct communication with those sources in order to help construct narratives.

[...]

"The gender critical movement and the far right appear to accord very strongly on the topic of trans rights. This pattern of GC groups sharing content from far-right sources, and far-right sources sharing content from GC sourc es is worrying in that it both demonstrates a potential entrypoint into far-right radicalism for GCs, as well as a route for fascists and the far-right to enter more mainstream conversations and spaces, using transphobia as their invitation."

-- Meryl Links ([twitter.com profile] minusplnp) and Mallory Moore ([twitter.com profile] Chican3ry), "Gender Critical and Fascist social media increasingly promoting each other" 2022-01-22 (the evidence is in the bits I elided, so click on through for supporting examples)

There are 16 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
sabotabby: (furiosa)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 12:21pm on 2022-01-24
I'm not surprised. Anti-trans and anarcho-primitivists have been courting each other for years, and there's a strong eugenics current in the latter.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 04:48am on 2022-01-25
Huh! I didn't know about this. I would like to know more about anarcho-primitivists' eugenical leanings and their connections with the transphobes.
sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 12:16pm on 2022-01-25
So, to do a broad stereotype of anarcho-primitivists, the ideal world that they envision would by necessity kill a vast majority of the population. And going back to entirely "natural" medicine and tech would in particular murder disabled people. They like to couch it in the whole "disabled people had a special place in society and were totally cared for" rhetoric but let's be honest about how that would work out.

Similarly, the models they envision would exclude a lot of trans people who have medical needs such as hormones and surgery. But it gets more overt with that, with two of the leaders of Deep Green Resistance, Derrick Jensen and Lierre Keith, who expressed their transphobia in a lot more overt ways. Here is one of the other founders, Aric McBay, who left the organization after a trans-inclusive policy was cancelled in 2012.

Here are the receipts. TW TW TW

Here's Vancouver's Media Coop talking about it.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 09:45pm on 2022-01-25

Thank you so much!

sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 09:57pm on 2022-01-25
No problem. I have strong opinions about this because 1) I'm disabled and have a lot of trans friends, and 2) I had an infestation of anarcho-primitivists crash at my apartment back when I was a baby anarchist and as a result, my loathing of them is a permanent part of my personality now.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 10:00pm on 2022-01-25
Ah! Further questions, if you don't mind. In the pastebin receipts, the DGR transphobes denigrate "anarchists" pretty fiercely. Are DGR anarcho-primitivists or are anarcho-primitivists mortal enemies of anarchists or...? I'm trying to get oriented to the teams in play.

Also, if I wind up writing about this (on [community profile] sylloge_of_soughs) do you want credit/a call out?
sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 10:17pm on 2022-01-25
I'm not an expert in leftist trainspotting like I used to be, but I think DGR used to identify as anarcho-primitivists/anti-civ (which are slightly different but both annoying) and maybe rejected that? Or they're talking about anarcho-communists and anarcho-syndicalists, who form the vast majority of people who identify as anarchists. Jensen definitely used to identify as an anarchist and spoke at bookfairs (my ex met him and said he was nice, actually). I'm not sure how Keith identified back in the day but I don't think she identifies as an anarchist anymore.

I also don't identify as an anarchist anymore (though I support a lot of anarchist ideas!), largely because bullshit like this led me to conclude that working with ideologically oriented, sectarian groups is a lot of frustration for very little payoff. So I do not speak for all anarchists. In general most anarchist tendencies are kind of broad tent and were accepting of these people who think that 90% of the human population needs to die, at least until they went explicitly TERF.

Also, if I wind up writing about this (on [community profile] sylloge_of_soughs) do you want credit/a call out?

Oh, sure! I am no expert, though, just a political dilettante.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 10:40pm on 2022-01-25
About thirty years ago I came to the conclusion that anarchists were a mix of heartbreakingly naive starry-eyed idealists who swallowed a spiel hook, line, and sinker, and a bunch of covert social darwinists who were attracted to the vision of a society in which laws would no longer constrain them and to the victors went the spoils. Which is to say: prey and predators, sheep and wolves.

Whenever anyone starts going on about freedom, it's important to ask "freedom to what?"
sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 11:06pm on 2022-01-25
I think you've got anarchists and anarcho-capitalists in the sheep and wolves analogy. The former don't recognize the latter as anarchists.

I'm generally of the opinion that there are better ways to organize society than the one we have, and a lot of anarchist principles go a fair way in doing improving matters. But I also lived in collective houses and worked in collectives and found that weirdly, the burden of the less glamorous work, be it dishes and toilets or tabling at the 'zine fair, mysteriously always ended up being done by women while the men did the important work of talking and thinking. So I am a little skeptical that we can all function in the complete absence of a state.

That said, I am in favour of abolishing a lot of the things that states currently do that are not useful, and focusing on things like healthcare, education, transportation, and environmental regulation, which are actually socially valuable.
smilingslightly: Photo of Zuleikha Robinson as Gaia in Rome. She looks tough. (don't mess with zuleikha)
posted by [personal profile] smilingslightly at 03:48am on 2022-01-26
Thank you for the recipts re. Derrick esp. who is/was a prominent local which has complicated some things / relationships - although circles haven't really overlapped for a number of years now. Anyway, that there link is veryvery clear and I appreciate it. His most recent (Oct 21) DGR radio show featured TERF fearmongering, so he's still very much on that shit.
sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 11:43am on 2022-01-26
You know, I'm not too distressed that he's still an ass. I always fundamentally objected to his philosophy and had to deal with people defending him, so this has all been very vindicating.
stacys_musings: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] stacys_musings at 06:03pm on 2022-01-25
I find it fascinating that TERFs often ally themselves with the conservative right. Do they really believe 'the enemy of an enemy is my friend?' The religious right pushes the belief that most trans people will simply turn out to be gay - but yet they believe homosexuality a choice. So they're using an argument they don't agree with as a weapon. Stunning.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 10:32pm on 2022-01-25
I find it fascinating that TERFs often ally themselves with the conservative right. Do they really believe 'the enemy of an enemy is my friend?'

I have a theory! Well, a bunch of theories, actually.

First and foremost, I think TERFs are not unlike a female version of the Log Cabin Republicans. I think whether or not one is attracted to fascistic and bigoted politics is a matter of personality and character, and all things being equal, those vary pretty independently of one's sexual orientation or gender identity. The "problem", of course, for LGBTQ people (and women) who want to join in on the fascist fun is that the fascists don't want them. They have two options. Either give up on bigotry and admit that even if they see the appeal, it's wrong, and they know it's wrong from direct experience + the Golden Rule. Or adopt the principle, "No, see, I'm one of the good ones! You're wrong to be prejudiced against my identity, but it's totally fine to be prejudiced against all those other identities. Prejudice is totally fine! Just mistaken in the case of my minority identity. And I totally agree that some of the people in my minority – maybe even a lot – are just like your stereotypes say, and totally worthy of condemnation and contempt. But not all of us! See, I'm okay! Hey, I'll even help you discriminate between the Good Ones like me and all the Bad Ones."

Which is what gets us people like Blair White, for a really obvious case. I just think TERFs are an unobvious case of the same thing.

Which ties into another theory of mine. TERFs make a lot more sense if you start from the hypothesis that what's actually going on with them is that, contrary to what they espouse, they are all deeply misogynist. If you ignore what they say and observe what they do, it turns out that what a TERF is, in practice, is someone who moves in on feminist spaces to attack other women. All of their most avid policies and principles are about discriminating between the "good" women and the "bad" women and punishing the bad women. These are the people in favor of prosecuting sex workers – a category they themselves conceptualize as exclusively women. These are the people who want to criminalize BDSM – or at least when women participate in it, given they don't care about what happens between consenting men. I gather these are the people responsible for a bunch of really foul movements on Tumblr, all of which turn out the necessitate attacking women.

So of course they attack trans women. Trans women commit the most egregious outrage in the mind of a misogynist: they demonstrate valuing womanhood. That completely wrecks their narrative that obviously everyone scorns women and would never voluntarily be one. That's unforgivable.
Edited (html tyops) Date: 2022-01-25 10:33 pm (UTC)
sabotabby: (furiosa)
posted by [personal profile] sabotabby at 11:13pm on 2022-01-25
This is a good theory or set of theories.

As a corollary, TERFs and the far-right both have very essentialist views of women. TERFs want to dance naked and smear themselves in menstrual blood as tribute to the Goddess or whatever they're into and the far-right wants to enslave women in the home, but both accept woman as Other, as opposed to a human entitled to equal amounts of dignity and human rights. A TERF, when pressed, may suggest that women are inherently superior to men, but a far-right type will also argue that (and that's why they need to be protected at all costs from feminism, brown people, the vote, etc.) through the "Angel of the House" rhetoric.
selki: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] selki at 04:05am on 2022-01-29
TERFs make a lot more sense if you start from the hypothesis that what's actually going on with them is that, contrary to what they espouse, they are all deeply misogynist.

Yeah, makes sense. I think gender essentialism and misogyny are deeply intertwined, at least currently.
finding_helena: Girl staring off into the distance. Text from "River of Dreams" by Billy Joel (Default)
posted by [personal profile] finding_helena at 05:57am on 2022-01-26
I feel like there is a weird gender role element here which is kind of funny (in that headdesking way) coming from people who theoretically think you shouldn't be limited based on gender. Not totally sure how this exactly works, but it's some version of what is appropriate for someone to do based on what their body is. If you're born with a penis, their schema goes, you must act in certain ways as a male. It is not appropriate for you to take feminizing hormones, wear makeup and a dress, go by a female name, and/or have GCS. Those act contrary to the male gender role. Dudes need to stay in their dude-box and ladies in their lady-box. A "dude" who wants to be in the lady-box could obviously only be doing it to be a creep. And this all comes with a huge helping of denial about a. what the thought processes and feelings are of a person who transitions, b. what the thought processes and feelings are of the majority of people who would not transition for any reason because this isn't actually something that people can be convinced into, or c. maybe they just need to mind their own business and let another person do what they want with their own body, it isn't hurting them.

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