I am fucking annoyed.
Somone forwarded a message ostensibly containing something cute to a mailing list. The forwarded message was in fugly HTML that pretty completely obscured the allegedly cute bit, so I wrote back pointing that out and asking whether his MUA was so broken that he had no way of knowing it was HTML before forwarding it. The answer was "yes, it's that broken", followed a few minutes later by, "Oh, there is a way to tell, but it's really not obvious". In between those two messages, I figured I'd have a peek myself. The MUA in question is Pine.
In the version of Pine I've got, an HTML-only message does not show any indication -- when reading, replying, or forwarding -- that it's in HTML. This is severely broken, because it makes it so difficult for users to Do The Right Thing, but that's not what I'm screaming about.
When I finished, my mail was fucking gone. Oh, I did eventually find it in $HOME/mbox, appended to a pile of already-dealt-with stuff that's supposed to be in $HOME/mbox, but dammit, I did not ask Pine to actually save any changes to my mailbox! The other MUAs I use can be exited with or without saving changes; one makes this obvious by which command one uses to exit, the other prompts on exit, asking whether to move read messages to an "already read" folder or not, and whether to delete messages marked for deletion or not.
Now I've got to go figure out where stuff-supposed-to-be-in-mbox leaves off and stick the rest back into /var/spool/mail/dglenn, and in the meantime I've lost status information. Usually I've got four categories of messages:
- Marked "New" in my system mailbox: recent, since the last time I really Dealt With My Mail, still "New" to remind me to go through them again Soon.
- Marked "Unread" in my system mailbox: messages still on my urgent "to do" list.
- Marked "read" in my system mailbox: not urgent, but I'm not finished with them either -- I might want to file the information someplace other than my mail archive, or extract quotable bits, or file addresses in my .mailrc.
- In $HOME/mbox: read, responded to, dealt with, ready to archive.
This is not only wrong, this is unconscionably wrong. Always leave the user a way to get out without having made any goddamned changes!
I knew Pine had a broken user interface when I started, but I thought it was just the fact that it had annoying-as-sin menus and played the "make it easy to learn by making it annoying or impossible to do anything but the obvious" game, but I didn't expect "you can't even open this program without making changes to your mail file". Whoever wrote Pine owes me a couple hours wages for my time putting this right again. *grumble*
Stay away from Pine, folks. Laugh at my own choice of MUA (/bin/mail under Linux, /usr/bin/mailx under SunOS) if you must, but use Elm or Mutt or some Windows or Mac MUA, not Pine. Pine is eeevil. And I am quite angry.
All because I tried to figure out how to tell someone not to accidentally send HTML messages to a mailing list where HTML isn't apropriate. "No good deed," and all that.
(no subject)
I *use* pine, and have never had it make changes for me without asking (unless I went into the settings area and *told* it to do so).
Sorry to hear that it was evil to you!
(no subject)
Somewhat relieved to hear it doesn't screw everyone up this way, but still annoyed that it did it to me.
a couple small notes
I do, however, lose the "new" flag on messages I've read, and there doesn't seem to be a way to reverse that. This is sometimes annoying. It would be even more annoying if I switched between multiple mail clients, of course.
You can (through .pinerc) set arbitrary headers to be added to your outgoing mail. I wonder what would happen if you used that to force a content-type of text/plain. As far as I know all my outgoing mail is plain anyway, but I'll pay more attention the next time I forward something.
There is also an option in .pinerc called "mimetype-search-path", which points to a file that (I gather) specifies MIME types and how to handle them. I've never looked into this, but I'm guessing it would be possible to override pine's handling of HTML via this mechanism. It would be better if it were built in, of course, because HTML-formatted email is evil.
Re: a couple small notes
I'll let someone Pine doesn't act evil towards (like maybe someone who actually uses it) do the experiments with forcing the MIME-type. But I'm willing to be a test recipient of email and describe how it arrives.
Even if it hadn't moved all my mail out of /var/spool/mail/dglenn, losing the "New" flag would've been annoying. Less scary, but annoying. I don't understand why there isn't an "exit without making any changes on disk" option.
But as long as I'm griping about MUAs, I wish I knew why the Linux version(s) of /bin/mail don't honor the "editheaders" variable that worked on Xenix 3.x, various flavours of BSD, SunOS, and most other Unices I've used. And neither the Linux version nor the most recent couple of SunOS versions honor "noautombox", which I used to find rather convenient. (Now I have to remember to type "ho *" before I quit-with-changes.) So even my preferred MUA isn't perfect; it just fails to be evil.
Emacs doesn't like me either, but at least it's not sneaky about it.
(no subject)
I also never had problems with pine moving my mails around. Of course, I use pine exclusively when I'm reading my mail under unix. (If I've never tried another mailer, I'd be very unlikely to notice the kinds of things you're talking about.)
Anyway, sorry this happened to you, Glenn.
(no subject)
I'm guessing that different versions shipped with different defaults in the .pinerc that gets created when it's first executed.
(no subject)
I avoid pine like the bubonic plague. My ex-husband is on the receiving end of "bug-pine", which is enough for me to stay far away.
nmh
(no subject)
I have to admit, if I get an account back at my college like I plan to, I'm gonna have to install elm myself, which should be....erm...an adventure. *wry grin* Pine has been the default mailer at Clark for....a long time now. And has been ignored by me...for a long time now.