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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 03:31pm on 2004-03-02
There are 23 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
gsh: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] gsh at 12:55pm on 2004-03-02
I hadn't known Monica Belluci was playing Mary Magdaline. That might get me to see the movie.

 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:38am on 2004-03-03
I don't know whether I've seen her. Time for a visit to IMDb (http://www.imdb.com) ...
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:45am on 2004-03-03
Ah, I've never seen anything she's in, based on an IMDb search. But as a side effect of finding that out, now I want to see a movie ... Astérix & Obélix: Mission Cléopâtre (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250223/). That's got to be a trip.
gsh: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] gsh at 07:46am on 2004-03-03
I saw her in out of AFrica, and she was in the last two Matrix movies, wearing a latex dress to die for!

 
"Daest ~du spaekest Anglisc?" IIRC from my _Anglo-Saxon Chronicle_ days. (Where, of course, "ae" has a ligature, and "~d" represents an eth, since I'm too lazy to go look up the HTML for that stuff.)
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 03:23pm on 2004-03-02
Ah! I'd seen "Englisc" but not "Anglisc" before. Google likes "Anglisc" ... (off to read more)

Without having been told that's OE, I would've guessed ME. Then again, there's that one verse in ME that jumped out at me as sounding almost like Modern English, so the occasional reminder that the three are related shouldn't surprise me that much.

Thanks.

To make sure I've got the HTML right:
"Dæst ðu spækest Anglisc?"

(æ and ð, BTW.)
 
OE is very understandable to anyone with a solid ME background, especially if it's read by someone with something approaching the right accent. (Thank my prof Dr. Green for that one!) Many of the more basic words haven't changed all that much. Then again, I don't remember the OE component of the course as well as perhaps I ought, so maybe I'm talking out of my ass.

On the other hand, if you asked someone from there-and-then that question, the response might be something along the lines of "Yea, Ich spæke Anglisc, ðu torde, whæt madnes spækest ðu?!" ;-)
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 04:03pm on 2004-03-02
Well until now it's pretty much looked like German (and thus unintelligible since I don't speak German) to me. Suddenly I'm seeing recognizeable bits in it.

Was there more than one vowel shift? I found an intro-to-OE web site, and it said 'u' was pronounced as in 'dumb' ... but in the ME I've heard, 'u' sounds like 'oo'.
 
I think the jury's still out as to whether there's been more than one vowel shift in English, or whether the vowel shift just never stopped happening. Certainly it "stopped" (for all practical purposes) later in some places than others (see Paikeday's comments about Canadian English and vowel shifting, for instance -- Google search "Canadian Raising" for starters!). So it's not impossible that the same word could have the "u" sound as in "dumb" in 900 and then the "u" sound as in "zucchini" by 1200 or 1300. (Tell me that people sounded the same in 1700 as they do now!)

We're already seeing a split between more and less highly-shifted variants of MdnE, some of them severe enough to require "dialect" classification. Ask me about that guy who answered the phone "Haamaa Payp Cupneh," sometime. He was trying to say "Hyman Paper Company," but between his consonant loss and (lack of) vowel shift, neither of us could understand practically Word One of what the other said.

I don't read German, either, but then again, I think German looks enough like English that I can figure out the simple words. German and English are sort of cousin languages, which means that English belongs to a family full of dotty relatives (on both sides) -- English is one of the dottiest.
 
posted by [identity profile] marnanel.livejournal.com at 05:18pm on 2004-03-02
How to say, "Do you speak English?" in over 200 languages.

aww, no Sindarin?
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:33am on 2004-03-03
Well not yet anyhow ... Maybe if someone submits it?
weofodthignen: selfportrait with Rune the cat (Default)
posted by [personal profile] weofodthignen at 06:25pm on 2004-03-02
I have to disagree with the earlier responder, I'm afraid. The "do/does" periphrasis in questions is post-Anglo-Saxon.

So ... "Sprycst ðú Englisc?" [sprikst thoo ENNglish] or to be absolutely clear you don't mean "Are you speaking English right now, or some crazy argot?" "Canst ðú on ðæm Engliscan tunge sprecan?" [Kannst thoo on tham ENNglishun TUHNguh SPREKKun]

It can also be Ænglisc. And you don't want me to list the variants for "sprycst," but if you want you can give its vowel the pronunciation of short German ü.

Frith,
Marion
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:31am on 2004-03-03
Thank you!

I don't know German, but I do know that vowel sound, fortunately.

And jeepers, was Old English as strongly iambic as Modern English, or was that sentence just coincidentally so?
weofodthignen: selfportrait with Rune the cat (Default)
posted by [personal profile] weofodthignen at 08:57am on 2004-03-03
I don't know what you mean by iambic--I have a terrible ear for those kinds of poetry.

The strong initial stress is a Common Germanic thing that Anglo-Saxon did have, even more markedly than modern English. That may be what you're noticing.

The peculiarity of English, rhythmically speaking, that learners usually have trouble with is the flexible rhythm--the rule that in general a clause takes the same amount of time to say even if one adds extra syllables to it. Whereas other languages have the words marching along in a much more predictable rhythm. Anglo-Saxon poetry demonstrates that to a certain extent--and a greater extent than alliterative poetry in other Germanic languages based on the same principles. But it could also derive from fitting in all the little function words from Norman French. Likely the tendency was exacerbated after the Old English period.

M
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 08:33pm on 2004-03-02
I hates the very idea of broadband over power lines. Hates it. Hatessss.

The simple fact is that the power lines are not designed to be a transmission line. The data is going to be a broadband noise source, blanketing all LF, MF, and HF radio in the vicinity. "Who cares? All radio is going to be FM and satellite anyway?" Yeah, sure. Think of emergency communications. Very often the only communication links to a disaster-stricken area are low-power HF sets. Of course in the disaster area there are no broadband jammers, but here, where your receiving site is, you are in the midst of burbles and whinings of the blessed broadband data, and the emergency communications are buried under the nose. This will force to place the radios off-site, away from population centres, whereas now they are at the rescue authorities, city halls, and similar command centres.

And, of course, it will be another strike on the face of amateur radio enthusiasts.

And then there's the data privacy aspect. Are the communications between pole and central office going to be encrypted? "Oh, but it is on the cable, it isn't vulnerable to sniffing." It isn't? Balderdash. When you're transmitting broadband on a power line, the line is an antenna, efficiently radiating the precious bits to anyone who might want to listen. (And as mentioned above, to numerous parties who do not want to.) It will take but modest equipment to eavesdrop on such a communication link, and no physical contact at all. A curbside van is plenty enough.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:23am on 2004-03-03
Oof. Here I was just thinking about how cool it was to double-use existing infrastructure and to provide an alternative to the telco that didn't rely on renting bandwidth or wire from the telco you're competing with, and you come along to point out the stuff I should've thought of if I hadn't been distracted by the shiny side.

Hmm. Implementing structural changes to provide an electromagnetic solution won't be economically feasible because a big part of the reason for doing this in the first place is the ability to use copper that's already in place ... I wonder whether there's a mathematical solution to the interference problem. Obviously if you just ship the bits as unmodulated ripples added to the existing transmission line wave, you've got broadband emissions, and you can't do funky phase modulations to the base waveform because its frequency is (I assume) too low to be useful, but is there a useful encoding that would restrict the emissions to frequencies outside of radio communications use? Or is this one of those mathematical gotchas where we can prove that it's guaranteed to be a problem barring structural changes to the wiring (like adding shielding)?

As for eavesdropping ... ewww. Yeah, they're going to have to encrypt the packets, and that encryption is going to get thoroughly tested by black hats doing war-driving. Maybe some white-hats and grey-hats need to wander into the test area in MA and see whether they're currently at least attempting to encrypt.

Currently there are people who worry about eavesdropping using compromised routers (and other folks who put cash registers on WiFi without encryption <<shudder>>) When evesdropping on the connection becomes trivial, is it enough to personally run all your connections through SSH, or does the carrier also need to add encryption of the lowest protocols on top of that for you to be safe?

Oh man, I so don't want to wade through the math on a computer screen, but I know I'm not going to get ahold of it on paper any time soon.
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 02:45am on 2004-03-03
Given my background, I wouldn't rely on SSH only. Unless I'm SSHing to a gateway somewhere, and making my other connections only via the proxy gateway. You see, I don't want to give any food even to the traffic analysis. I prefer to mask the IP addressess and port numbers as well.

I'm positive that a coding or modulation scheme can be concoted that leaves a small number of narrow windows in the RF spectrum less contaminated. A small number, narrow windows. As you no doubt are aware, the bandwidth occupied by a transmission is the symbol rate. So, if I have 2 Mbit/s line, it is going to occupy 2 MHz of bandwidth -- in segments, if necessary. Unless we get the center frequency up to 15..20 MHz, it is going to block everything. And the higher the frequency, the less optimal the transmission line, and the more it will radiate.

Power line frequency is not only far too low to provide usable bandwidth, but the various reactive and especially switching loads are continuously modulating the 50 Hz (or 60 Hz) carrier in an unpredictable and uncomfortable manner, in phase and amplitude alike.

The voluntary emergency communications infrastructure in the US as well as many other countries use uncoordinated frequencies: the parties are free to make their allocations within given bands.

What is going to happen is that the technology will be pushed through, despite the lone voices in the desert protesting against it. Only later when everyone and their cousin is relying on the technology, will the problems become evident, and a loud indignant noise will be heard saying "we didn't want this."

Speaking of lone voices in the desert, I have found it to require a bit of work to find objective expositions of any power-line communication technology. Either it is touted as the technology that will save us from any internet connectivity problems for the rest of time, or it is soundly denounced as the most devilish invention since [abomination of your choice].
 
posted by [identity profile] malada.livejournal.com at 07:36am on 2004-03-03
Another problem with broadband on power lines is that it'll supply tons of *hash* directly to _anything_ that's plugged into a wall. That means you'll get noise on your stereo, DVD, TV, radio, and your _computer_. There's barely enough filtering in most consumer products to kill the sixty cycle hum - broadband will wreak everyone's home entertainment centers.

*That* should put the kybosh on it.

-m
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 07:44am on 2004-03-03
I'm not quite sure... Of course, there's an easy test. If the power cycling of the fridge, freezer, water heater, washing machine, and other such loads will cause an audible click or otherwise noticeable glitch in your equipment, then the data might be a problem, too. If, however, those high-intensity events are not witnessed on the equipment, I would feel the equipment would be immune to the data, as well.

My stereos do not pass this test. The computer does, as well as the FM monitor receiver. Admittedly, the last item is not strictly a consumer grade product.

But you are giving me hope. Perhaps, at a long last, we will see a benefit from the insufficient electromagnetic compatibility of consumer products.
 
posted by [identity profile] puzzledance.livejournal.com at 11:47pm on 2004-03-02
I'm amused by the Aramaic phrases. Thanks for posting the link.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:27am on 2004-03-03
Between amusing things like that, and other contexts were language has come up lately, I'm starting to get interested in learning lots of languages again. (Unfortunately I'm not very good at learning human languages. Parts of the process I seem to be good at, but actually getting to a conversational level, not so much. That doesn't mean I couldn't learn all the languages I'm interested in, but it does mean that I'd have to put so much work into it that it would mean a major overhaul of my priorities.)

But I digress. What I meant to say is that I'm glad you're amused.
 
posted by [identity profile] puzzledance.livejournal.com at 06:46am on 2004-03-03
You could learn some useful Latin phrases... &;)
 
posted by [identity profile] badgerthorazine.livejournal.com at 11:48pm on 2004-03-04
Many amusing things there...of course, I"m the one who wants to be able to say "Where's the Bathroom" in as many languages as possible. ;-D

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