eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
Add MemoryShare This Entry
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 08:36pm on 2004-04-12

Don't mind me, I'm just annoyed and coping with that by venting (though I did actually mail this).

From dglenn Mon Apr 12 20:30:24 2004
To: [person who sent out a notice to a long list w/o using Bcc:]
Subject: Re: [aforementioned notice]

Please tell me you did not *intentionally* send a 137K message to people (like myself) on slow dialup connections.

Please tell me you did not *intentionally* include binary attachments on a message sent to a mailing list.

Please tell me you did not *intentionally* do both of the above to convey a *two* *line* *message*.

Please tell me you did not *intentionally* send a pile o' HTML and _images_ to a list where you do not know that every reader is using a MIME-and-HTML-capable mail reader. (Hint: at least one reader is using a mail program that does not display HTML, and reading mail over a text (telnet) connection.)

I hope there was no important information in those images, 'cause I'm not going to switch to a different mail program to unpack them then switch to a different type of program entirely (a web browser or a paint program) to look at them.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. That was, for multiple reasons, the _wrong_ way.

Looking at your headers, it appears you used a web browser to send the message. I'm hoping that your fingers merely slipped, causing the message you meant to send as brief text with a _pointer_ (URL) to a page with the pretty formatting and pictures on it, to be sent as a painfully large and pointless collection of binary attachements by accident. (And I'll try very hard to remind myself that you didn't ask my opinion of using web browsers to send mail.)

The actual plaintext message was so short that it became easy to overlook next to the badly-formatted HTML that came after it and used more space, so I didn't even realize there was a _legible_ copy of those two lines until the second time I looked at the message. And the HTML copy has enough extraneous stuff in it that I didn't see the meat of the message in it at a glance. Assuming your goal is to get your message _read_ by people, this is *counterproductive*.

And sending me a hundred-and-thirty-[expletive]ing-seven K-byte message to say two [expletive]ing lines is [expletive]ing annoying. It's downright _rude_.

DON'T DO THAT.

If this was a slip of the fingers, say so and I'll go "harpumph" quietly to myself about this elsewhere. If it was due to ignorance, I hope that I've educated you as to why it was bad. And if you need assistance figuring out how to get word out _cleanly_, I'm willing to volunteer some of my time to show you, as a gesture of support for [organization].

                                  -- Glenn

I figured the Bcc: issue can be dealt with another time, perhaps as part of the followup "how to send polite mail" tutorial if he takes me up on that.

There are 20 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 05:54pm on 2004-04-12
Having observed scenarios similar to that related here a few times, I hope the intended recipient is someone grownup enough not to respond with a whining "Dial-up? Who uses dial-up at this day and age? Why don't you upgrade?" [Translation: My lack of planning should be your problem] or with a downright arrogant "I don't care if my message gets across or not." [Translation: Doesn't need translation.]

In completely unrelated news, whatchadoin Friday night?
 
Yeah, I get that a lot. Personally, I think the translation for the former isn't so much "my lack of planning" as "you mean poor people use the Internet too?!" At least, the people I've gotten that "argument" from usually follow it up with some whining about how broadband "isn't that expensive!" or something that translates to "If you're so poor, how come you have a computer? Shouldn't you have spent that money on..." (Funny how a lot of these tech types love to try to tell you how you should spend your money, but they hate *government* intervention...)
 
Poor people (me) and people who live in places broadband is not available (at least three of my friends).

"Funny how a lot of these tech types love to try to tell you how you should spend your money"

I usually respond to that tone with, "Oh, you're offering to buy me an upgrade then? How sweet of you!" (Except that the last person to snark at my complaints of being limited by ancient hardware went on to buy me a faster computer in the next paragraph, before I had a chance to get snarky back, and I elected to graciously and gratefully accept instead.)

The group associated with the person who sent out the mail I complained about in this entry is a local association of performing artists, so the should understand the concept of "starving artist", I hope.
 
And then there are people like me, who do not live in a bustling heart of a metropolis. The telephone company was very iffy about getting even the ISDN for me, and definitely negative about anything wider. It is over five kilometers from my house to the closest multiplexer -- it is not exactly a "last mile" any more.
 
There are parts of the US where the local RBOC (regional phone company split off from the old monopoly) is required to offer ISDN but can get away with making it prohibitively expensive (more than the cost of a T1 unless you're using it less than thirty or so minutes per day) because they really don't want to sell ISDN service. (In other parts of the country ISDN is a quite reasonable medium to use, I've heard.)

I've got no idea how recent competitors to the RBOCs price ISDN.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 09:49pm on 2004-04-12
Fortunately in this case I'm sure he wanted his message heard, and since I pay dues to the organization in question my voice may carry some teensy amount of weight. We'll see.

As for Friday, I think all I've got scheduled is getting ready for Saturday's gig at MTT; I'll check when I remember where I put my calendar (it can't have gotten far, for I saw it last night and it doesn't move very quickly).
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 12:01am on 2004-04-13
Piker. The national prez of a club I belong to emailed out a 1M pdf of the financial report to the entire membership.

 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 09:25pm on 2004-04-13
A couple of years ago, someone from the alumni office of my high school mailed a TIFF -- straight off the scanner, colour scan of normal BW newsprint -- of a newspaper clipping of an article that mentioned the school, to every alumnus he had an email address for. I was far less polite that day. Still, he thanked me for being the most polite of the people who responded (and for telling him how to not-do-that in the future).
 
posted by [identity profile] vvalkyri.livejournal.com at 06:45am on 2004-04-13
A customer once sent me a mail that set my left and right brains at war.

I saw before I opened it that the thing was around 150 K, and was not amused.*

Then I opened the 4 line message and was indeed relaxed by the truly lovely background scene of blue sky and turquoise water and small sandy islands with palm trees and chaise lounges.

And I must say that the waving smiley face by the "Hi, [Val]" and the smiley face with the turban and the crystal ball showing a question mark illustrating the gentleman's confusion did bring a smile to my face.

So here I was on the one hand tikked about the size of a message bearing little more than a "thanks for your message but I'm still a little confused by this bit here" but on the other hand I had an undeniably pleasant moment actually looking at his mail.

I decided to leave my editorial comments to the fact that I replied in plaintext.


*Note that this isn't a dialup thing but an always near my mailbox size limit thing.
zenlizard: Because the current occupation is fascist. (Default)
posted by [personal profile] zenlizard at 07:08am on 2004-04-13
I am amused. Not tolerantly amused, more of the pointing and laughing amused.
 
posted by [identity profile] lilkender.livejournal.com at 07:27am on 2004-04-13
I have cable modem but am still annoyed by HTML mail and images. I still have to wait for it to load, even if I don't want to see it in the first place. And as mentioned above, it fills my inbox, which has a 10 meg limit (including everything I'm saving) before it starts bouncing mail. Most of the HTML mail I get is spam.

I just noticed that my email allows me to send out email 5 MEGS in size. Yeesh!
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 09:04pm on 2004-04-13
I've had occasion to legitimately send mail that size, but it wasn't a) by accident, b) frivolously when a shorter message would have sufficed, c) unexpected by the recipient, nor d) to a mailing list.

(Employer wanted me to create a rather large PDF and preferred email as the method of delivery. Tied up my modem a good long time sending it.)

I've also gotten expected email that had a reason to be 1.5 MB; if I'm warned it's coming, it's something I want or need, and there's a good reason for it to be that large, it's not a problem. I can make sure I've got enough room left under my disk quota, and download it soon after it arrives. But there has to be a good reason it's sent as attachments instead of just pointers to a web site.

"Most of the HTML mail I get is spam."

Same here, but I also occasionally get HTML mail from relatives, and I've got at least two friends using webmail services that do not appear to be capable of sending plaintext messages. *sigh*

I probably ought to whitelist those two and write a filter rule that bounces any other HTML with a snark-o-gram. (No, no, on second thought that would tell spammers the address is valid, wouldn't it?)
 
posted by [identity profile] anniemal.livejournal.com at 08:36am on 2004-04-13
You're going to have to explain this to me in photon-sized terms. I think a KB is bigger than an MB, but really don't know. I've never heard of Bcc except as the common local reference to Broome Community College.

When I was living on $975/month not including gas and food, (1995-6) internet wasn't even in question. Email? Ha. What does ISDN mean? Why hasn't anyone put out a reference book on this? Or why(ne), if it's been done, hasn't anyone told me?
 
posted by [identity profile] vvalkyri.livejournal.com at 11:31am on 2004-04-13
8 bits = byte -> 1000 bytes = 1 kilobyte (KB) -> 1000 kilobytes = 1 megabyte (MB) -> 1000 megabytes = 1 gigabyte (GB)

Each letter I type takes up a byte. Pictures take up far more space. If you look on your hard drive you can see the sizes of documents and pictures.
 
posted by [identity profile] anniemal.livejournal.com at 11:46am on 2004-04-13
Thank you. This helps a bit. I have enough other questions to tire anyone.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 09:14pm on 2004-04-13
Except that depending on context, KB = 1024 Bytes, and MB = 1024 KB. Round-number thousands anyhow though, and part of the time literally 1000.

"Each letter I type takes up a byte."

Careful -- Unicode screws with that explanation. (Each letter in English takes up one byte. Once you start mixing alphabets, some characters take up more than one byte.)

Historical usage, where bytes were different sizes on different machines, can remain a footnote for now. :-)
 
posted by [identity profile] syntonic-comma.livejournal.com at 01:28pm on 2004-04-13
BCC = Blind Carbon Copy -- message recipients who don't show up in the email header. Like all the spam you receive that doesn't appear to be addressed to you -- you were blind copied. Or the email about the Chesapeake web site. (Your email software lets you do this too.)

ISDN: Google is your friend -- search on "define:ISDN"

ISDN is a public global network capable of transmitting voice, data and images at speeds up to 2 Mbit/s. The digital technique can transport more signals on the same telephone line than the traditional analogue technique and enables a range of new services.
www.tst.dk/uk/publications/status2000eng/html_annex/bile.htm

Integrated Services Digital Network. A digital phone service capable of speeds from 57.6 K to 128 K. Provides two data channels, each with its own phone number, making simultaneous voice and data possible.
www.56k.com/glossary.shtml

For comparison....
How do cable modems compare to ISDN, ADSL and satellite services?

ISDN (integrated services digital network), available through telephone lines, offers a maximum speed of 128 kbps -- a fraction of the bandwidth available through a cable modem connection. ADSL (asymmetric digital subscriber line) is a higher-speed alternative available over telephone lines, offering data rates of 1 mbps or more. That's comparable to a cable modem connection. Typically, however, ADSL services are more expensive than cable modem connections. Satellite services, such as DirecPC, offer up to 400-kbps download speeds, but require a dial-up modem for upstream communications, which is slow and cumbersome. (This info was from the cable-modem people at www.cable-modem.net.)

Or why(ne), if it's been done, hasn't anyone told me?
 
posted by [identity profile] anniemal.livejournal.com at 01:31pm on 2004-04-13
Thank you, sir.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 09:19pm on 2004-04-13
The reasons for Bcc are:
  1. The same reason you'd use a blind-carbon-copy on paper correspendence,
  2. To hide addresses if you're not sure every recipient wants everyone else to have their address (or when CC'ing a private mailing list that shouldn't get followups or doesn't want the list address quoted and archived randomly around the net),
  3. When the list of recipients is so long that it takes up more than a screen or is longer than the message, and you don't want everyone to have to scroll through it to get to the text.
(I'm sure someone will suggest additional reasons, but those are the common ones.)
 
posted by [identity profile] vvalkyri.livejournal.com at 11:11pm on 2004-04-13
Hrm. I'd have preferred to bcc the email I just sent (I think I didn't include lj people this goround) but was afraid of spam filters nuking b/c of bcc...

Links

January

SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24
 
25
 
26
 
27
 
28
 
29
 
30
 
31