The thought of collateral damage -- that hurting the city government too badly would hurt innocent citizens -- did cross my mind. But I do feel that a Message Needs To Be Sent, and one way to make people feel such a message is to make it enough to hurt. Ideally we'd wind up with a balance that doesn't result in laying off teachers or bankrupting the city but still hurts enough to send the message DON'T DO THAT EVER AGAIN!
First, those wrongly arrested and those treated illegally once arrested (two largely overlapping sets) should be compensated for having been wronged. If some people guilty of misdemeanors get off scott free because the police fucked up, maybe that too will convince the police not to fuck up that way in the future.
Then, after just compensation, there should be punitive damages. I personally don't care who gets the money from the punitive damages as long as the folks responsible for the wrongdoing feel the pain. Let the damages get donated to the UN to help fund election monitoring, or to the Red Cross -- whomever.
Will this also get some "Hey I just live here" New Yorkers ticked off? Probably, depending on how talk radio spins the whole mess. In a perfect world they'd see it as being a sign that those currently in charge need to be reined in or replaced rather than seeing it as being the fault of the protesters, but even if it does piss off some unconnected New Yorkers, a message needs to be sent. Clearly shouting very loudly, "We don't think this is fair!" is not going to do the trick, since we've already seen how they're currently handling peaceful protests! I'm sure you'd not prefer that I advocate violence.
The only other path that strikes me as immediately obvious is to persue criminal charges against a whole lot of police officers who were apparently following orders from higher up, as well as whatever higher-ups we can actually pin this on. Methinks suing them is more likely to do the job.
"Our freedoms are also pretty much BOGUS...they are given to us and taken away just as easily"
I'm not willing to sit down and accept that situation, thank you very much.
"People have the choice to either participate in whatever people are protesting or not."
People got caught for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Apparently someone got caught because they chose the wrong moment to take out their garbage. Someone else got caught because he was trying to get on the subway and wasn't involved in the protest at all.
"eight out of ten protestors do NOT carry themselves in a decent, affective manner"
The coverage I've seen has made it clear that this time there was a serious attempt among the protesters to enforce discipline and that people who were making every attempt to follow the rules were being rounded up unfairly and illegally. Yeah, the ones who are out there to get arrested to make a point don't get to complain about being arrested (though they may get to complain about being treated unfairly once they're picked up). And the ones who go off and do stupid shit deserve to be punished (but probably won't get the punishment they deserve anyhow because of the huge number of innocent people swamping the system in this mess). But come on, when the police instruct a group, "Do this and this and there'll be no trouble because you're following our rules" and then without warning changing the rules and rolling a fence around the group that had been following the rules is just fucked up.
Yeah, the real protesters -- the people who weren't just caught in the wrong place as they tried to go about their business -- did choose to participate. But "you may not peacably assemble" is not an acceptable rule in the U. S. of fucking A.
What do you suggest folks do instead? Stage another protest?
Re: Okay people....
First, those wrongly arrested and those treated illegally once arrested (two largely overlapping sets) should be compensated for having been wronged. If some people guilty of misdemeanors get off scott free because the police fucked up, maybe that too will convince the police not to fuck up that way in the future.
Then, after just compensation, there should be punitive damages. I personally don't care who gets the money from the punitive damages as long as the folks responsible for the wrongdoing feel the pain. Let the damages get donated to the UN to help fund election monitoring, or to the Red Cross -- whomever.
Will this also get some "Hey I just live here" New Yorkers ticked off? Probably, depending on how talk radio spins the whole mess. In a perfect world they'd see it as being a sign that those currently in charge need to be reined in or replaced rather than seeing it as being the fault of the protesters, but even if it does piss off some unconnected New Yorkers, a message needs to be sent. Clearly shouting very loudly, "We don't think this is fair!" is not going to do the trick, since we've already seen how they're currently handling peaceful protests! I'm sure you'd not prefer that I advocate violence.
The only other path that strikes me as immediately obvious is to persue criminal charges against a whole lot of police officers who were apparently following orders from higher up, as well as whatever higher-ups we can actually pin this on. Methinks suing them is more likely to do the job.
"Our freedoms are also pretty much BOGUS...they are given to us and taken away just as easily"
I'm not willing to sit down and accept that situation, thank you very much.
"People have the choice to either participate in whatever people are protesting or not."
People got caught for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Apparently someone got caught because they chose the wrong moment to take out their garbage. Someone else got caught because he was trying to get on the subway and wasn't involved in the protest at all.
"eight out of ten protestors do NOT carry themselves in a decent, affective manner"
The coverage I've seen has made it clear that this time there was a serious attempt among the protesters to enforce discipline and that people who were making every attempt to follow the rules were being rounded up unfairly and illegally. Yeah, the ones who are out there to get arrested to make a point don't get to complain about being arrested (though they may get to complain about being treated unfairly once they're picked up). And the ones who go off and do stupid shit deserve to be punished (but probably won't get the punishment they deserve anyhow because of the huge number of innocent people swamping the system in this mess). But come on, when the police instruct a group, "Do this and this and there'll be no trouble because you're following our rules" and then without warning changing the rules and rolling a fence around the group that had been following the rules is just fucked up.
Yeah, the real protesters -- the people who weren't just caught in the wrong place as they tried to go about their business -- did choose to participate. But "you may not peacably assemble" is not an acceptable rule in the U. S. of fucking A.
What do you suggest folks do instead? Stage another protest?