eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 08:05am on 2004-10-04

The things that fall into my brain at odd moments ... (maybe I do need that Faraday coif after all?) ...

Is it possible to make something like an aerogel out of metal instead of silica? If so, would it still be called an aerogel, or would it just be "metal foam"? One web page I read suggested that an aerogel could be made from "anything that can be dissolved", which would suggest that it could be done with metal (but would the atomic properties of metals interfere with formation of the gel, and/or would structuring a metal as an aerogel result in a nonmetallic substance made of a metal element?) ...

The thought that started this was that I suddenly imagined what fun it would be to create sculptures out of a brass aerogel. Assuming that we can create metal gels, would it matter that we started with an alloy instead of a single element? (Argh -- more web surfing to do, because I've reminded myself that there are things I ought to know about alloys but don't. If my understanding is correct, an alloy is not a compound, but I'm not sure whether it's simply a mixture or whether it's some funky special state in between a mixture and a compound because metals do funny things with their electrons, things of which the Moral Majority probably would not approve.) I could see switching my vague project ideas to alumin[i]um or tin if an alloy would be bad. Or maybe copper ... but wow, what happens to an aerogel as it oxidizes? I'd hate to wind up with nothing but a cc or so of fine green dust a year later.

(Though of course the right artistic themes and some creative marketing could turn the ephemeral nature of such a scultpture into a positive attribute. Like if you could make soap-bubble art last long enough to sell on eBay, eh?)

I need to open a whole bunch more browser windows, but I'm low on RAM. So I must either finish what I was doing with all the windows I've got open, or fire up another computer to run a web browser on. Or probably just go back to bed, because it's obvious I still need sleep. At least when the noise in my brain-circuitry randomly produces a signal-like structure it's often entertaining to me ... (yeah, the Faraday coif would be to protect y'all from having stuff get beamed out of my head -- :-P ). Okay, okay, right, time to either post to talk.bizarre or go to bed, right. I'll find out whether I was really awake now when I get up later and find out whether this entry actually exists in my journal.

But the more I think about it, the more I think that mere "metal foam" would suffice for the first ideas that came to mind, but despite that, the more nifty I think the notion of a metallic aerogel is for sheer "because it's there" value.

So where do I buy brass open-cell foam? No, wait, wrong question ... How can I make soap bubbles last long enough for an eBay auction? No, wait, still the wrong question ... Has anyone made electroluminescent aerogels? Wait, so wrong a question that, well, where the heck did that one come from? Why am I not already back in bed? Right question. Good mNoIrGnHiTn'!

There are 6 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 05:43am on 2004-10-04
If you choose your metal appropriately, the oxidisation would enhance the durability of the product. After all, aluminium oxide -- alumina -- in some crystal configurations is among the harder substances. Some precious or semiprecious stones are alumina crystals.

I find the issue of alloy versus compound, as far as metals-only associations are concerned, something of a non-issue. I don't really see much difference in the atom-to-atom binding whether we are talking iron to chromium or iron to iron. Moral so-called Majority notwithstanding, I approve.

It seems to me that the metal aerogel would still be a metal. The fine structure is not so fine that we get to quantum weirdnesses, although I would expect ferromagnetism to disappear -- ferromagnetism requires certain grain size.

You might find it interesting to look at the differences between foams and sponges. The structures are not identical. I wonder which category the aerogels fall in. Casual thought of the generative process would suggest foam, I'm afraid.

- o -

What kind of person is it that posts in other persons' dreams?
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 07:02am on 2004-10-04
What kind of person is it that posts in other persons' dreams?

Morpheus, as in Dream?
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 07:01am on 2004-10-04
Sleepie-sleepie.
 
posted by [identity profile] keith-m043.livejournal.com at 08:38am on 2004-10-04
Due to differences in specific gravity, the only easy place to make foam metal in in freefall. Titanium or Niobium would make a nice foam (you'd have to foam them in argon). Once you're done forming them, you could anodize them to a wide range of colours.
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 12:18pm on 2004-10-04
Couldn't the foaming fluid be liquid instead of gas?
 
posted by [identity profile] keith-m043.livejournal.com at 09:56am on 2004-10-05
ok, this is starting to get way out of my area of expertise (the being having read an article on the potential of space manufacture). I only make comments about Ti and Nb in particular cuz I know a lot more about them due to my research into anodization. I am having trouble thinking of something that would be liquid at the melting temperature of Ti or Nb that would still be liquid at room temperature. Also that liquid is likely to be heavy. This would be a problem if you had closed cell foam. OTOH I guess one is stuck with the use of open cell foam even foaming with gasses (or else the foam would collapse when the gas contracts going to room temperature). Getting back to foaming with liquid I guess one could foam with liquid that solidifies at higher than room temperature. One would need to evacuate it before going to room temp. Could also be tricky in that one would need a liquid that wouldn't like to intermix/alloy with the metal being foamed (and with Ti, the liquid can't have any nitrogen, oxygen or hydrogen in it or the Ti is likely to absorb those elements and become embrittled). At this point I'm mostly just speculating now and am not sure how useful it is.

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