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eftychia at 11:16pm on 2004-10-05I actually didn't fall asleep during the debate after all. Immediate reaction: I'm not happy with either of them. I noticed more lies from Cheney, and he was a little unsubtle with the "repeat the lie often enough and people will start to believe it" trick (I hope unsubtle enough to undermine it, but probably not). I got annoyed at both of them for ducking the hard questions. Because I wanted Edwards to do well, it was frustrating to see his "oops, I said the name again" clumsiness. And I think Edwards fumbled some points that could have been slam-dunks.
I'm inclined to think of it as a draw, but what matters is the effect, and that's based on what most other people think.
As for my own opinion, I'll have to see whether it changes after re-watching the tape, reading the transcript, meditating on it more, and/or reading others' observations. But for now, I feel it was a poor showing by both.
(no subject)
You mean, like when Cheney asserted that the Administration has never taken its eye off Osama and Edwards failed to note that every troop in Iraq is one not searching for OBL?
Yeah, he did. But he didn't flinch, and at least drew. IMO.
The Dems have GOT to learn to put their opponents away; both debates have so far proved that they don't know where the jugular is, or how to get there.
Boy, do I wish I had a residence I could claim in Florida. Or Ohio, or Wisconsin, or even New Joisey...
Draw!
If I had to decide between the two though, I'd probably call Edwards the victor for one *simple* reason.
At the end of the debate, when they were making their closing arguments, Edwards thanks the debate moderator AND the vice president. Cheney thanks the debate moderator, looks like he's going to say something else and then closes his mouth. That is a very telling point of personality and all other things being equal I'd give Edwards the win on sportsmanship :/
Re: Draw!
As for going for the jugular, I think Edwards was in a tough spot and Cheney had an advantage. If Edwards got too strident, then Cheney could say that he didn't have the self-control for needed to hold high office, to deal with the stress it confers without mercy nor to maintain diplomatic behavior with political adversaries.
Cheney also has that "I'm grandfatherly, isn't that reassuring in these oh-so-scary-times" image. I think he relied on it being a factor and stayed polite in order not to violate that image.
I do feel more negative about Cheney and the way he comes off in public. I wonder how he feels when he watches Bush (attempt to) speak. I get the strong impression that if Cheney gave a speech and was immediately followed by Bush, Bush's obvious in-articulation would look even worse than it already does.
Dems are always loathe to fight dirty. Because they want to appeal to underdogs, to the "little guys" they can't look like the bullies who already make the "little guys" suffer. Republicans don't worry because by and large they are bullies and know how well bullies succeed. They also use petty bribery (read: tax cuts) which works with an ease that I continually find appalling.
I'm hoping that Friday night's debate on domestic policy can really bring home how Bush is hurting the middle class in this country. I expect to hear him drone on about No Child Left Behind and tax cuts for 90 minutes. Between all the stammering, that is.
Re: Draw!