eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 05:25am on 2004-12-03

From "10 Ideas for 2008":

Practice this line: "You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex." Homosexuality, promiscuity, and obscenity are just sexual issues. Even abortion turns into a sexual issue if your real goal is punishing promiscuity rather than saving fetuses.

Sex barely scratches the surface of morality. If your moral code instructs you to bring honesty, integrity, and compassion into all your human relationships, it's not clear that you need any special rules about sex at all. When Jesus listed the admission standards for Christians to get into Heaven (Matthew 25), not one of them concerned sex. The key idea was "Who did you help?" not "Who did you sleep with?"

We shouldn't abandon the word morality to the neo-Puritans."

-- Pericles of DailyKos, 2004-11-29

There are 5 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 08:02am on 2004-12-03
"You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex."

"You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex."

"You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex."
"You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex."

"You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex."

"You keep saying 'morality' but really you're just talking about sex."

(I even hand-typed it the last three times. I'm going to memorize and internalize this---the idea I'm very familiar with, but I need a snappy way of putting it out there quickly.)
 
posted by [identity profile] blumindy.livejournal.com at 09:10am on 2004-12-03
Of course this is true and personally, I think it has been blatantly obvious in politics for years, perhaps decades.
How moral is it to let children starve and suffer without medical attention? Yet politicians bash so-called welfare programs and decry it as anti-American to want some sort of social welfare.
The war on drugs has followed the same pattern -- look at Ashcroft's persecution of the desperately-ill people who use medical marijuana even when fully sanctioned by doctors and local government.
The reason so many "liberals" are outraged by a certain type of Christian is because they recognize this hypocrisy. The holier-than-thou attitude copped by certain members of any group serve only as a turn-off to people who might otherwise be sympathetic to whatever the given cause is. The environmentalist movement is a case in point, as are animal rights activists.

My own feeling is that the xenophobic behaviors and possibly even instincts that proto-humans needed to accomplish Darwinian survival eons ago has become the "us vs. them" attitude of modern existence. This is now to our detriment but I see no real addressing of it as a problem. In fact, I'd have to say that during the last 3-4 decades, it has been used by politicians and religious leaders to enhance their own positions. I see this in Chicago with Jesse Jackson and Operation PUSH as well as in many other places.

People who want to lead aren't motivated to promote compromise and empathy/understanding for "others." It serves them far better to use the power of fear to create divisions where none should exist, as a practical matter.
The entire marriage debate is a perfect example of this. I have yet to hear ANYONE defend the idea that same-sex marriages in any way are detrimental to opposite-sex marriages. No one's marriage really affects anyone else's on anything beyond a personal level. Yet advocates who state that their deep commitment to Christianity is the justification for all this hatred seem to me, an admitted non-Christian, to be violating their own principles of love and acceptance.....
The equating of sex with morality is so ingrained and so used as the powerful tool it will always be, that I can't really envision it ever changing extensively. We are built to be sexual beings and the power-seekers will always exploit this fact.
madfilkentist: My cat Florestan (gray shorthair) (Default)
posted by [personal profile] madfilkentist at 10:09am on 2004-12-03
"How moral is it to let children starve and suffer without medical attention?"

If you aren't devoting 100% of your efforts to the welfare of children, you are "letting" some children starve and suffer. I don't know about you, but I "let them starve" in that sense, and I reject any accusations of immorality on that account.

What we're seeing from both the left and the right is what I've called the moralization of politics -- the transformation of political goals to moral demands upon people. I distinguish this from the politicization of morality; it completes the loop, and they grow on each other. The politicization of morality amounts to saying that because a goal (e.g., feeding the poor or stopping homosexual sex) is allegedly moral, it should be implemented through government force. The left and right alike believe in this. The moralization of politics follows through by saying that anyone who opposes such laws is thereby immoral. This is a level of escalation which the right started, but the left is now imitating.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 11:16am on 2004-12-03
"Of course this is true and personally, I think it has been blatantly obvious in politics for years, perhaps decades."

Well yes, but we've all been letting folks get away with it ... get away with "framing the discussion" in those terms. The point of Pericles' suggestion was not to just nod and think, "I know what they really mean," but to actually call them on it. Strip away the pretense.
 
posted by [identity profile] old-hedwig.livejournal.com at 09:43am on 2004-12-03
One wonders if some "Christians" have actually read much of the Gospels. The actual words of Jesus, not Paul. The way I read it, Jesus was a whole lot more worked up about social and economic justice and showing love and mercy and forgiveness than about ragging on folks about sex.

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