I think you are putting too much weight on the role of religion. Also I think you are assumeing a drone like nature amoung the religious. We people are in bad situations they often turn to religion. When people are in conflict they often seek support of "God" in their goals. This does not make the religion in question wrong.
In the USA you can talk to any two Christians and you will get a wide range of views. Their are Christians as liberal as you are. There are Christian far more conservative then myself. People united over causes not over banners. Not all who oppose abortion or homosexual marriage are christians or even conservatives.
The Conflict with Communism vs Capitalism had NOTHING to do with religion but was a conflict of government forms. While in such a conflict people looked for support from any number of sources including invoking religion. But all because someone say God is against them does not mean that was the reason for the conflict.
Like it or not religion isn't the MOST divisive of issues. Put four people on a raft and one peace of bread and you will quickly learn the food can be far more Divisive. I would say the MOST divisive things are resources... oil, water, food, shelter, etc. Second most would be property issues... law, land, property, jobs, etc. Third would be power issues.. speech, voting rights, type of government, etc.. The last divisive would be beliefs... religion, role of government, colthing, etc.
I didn't say any of the above. Not even close. Didn't even imply it. In fact, I said it *wasn't* about Capitalism at all in any sense.
I said Capitalism doesn't have anything to do with freedom of religion. Capitalism is about economics. Democracy has to do with freedom of religion.
If you frame it as "Capitalism Vs Communism", youre right. But that's not what it was all about.
Democracy Vs Communism was absolutely about religion (and lots of other freedoms too, but religion was primary for the opposition to it here). The Religious right in this country were the most rabid anti-communists we had, and coined the term "Godless Communists". The communists banned religions. All of them. People had to practice in secret.
Their economic practices had nothing to do with how they treated religions.
Just look at China if you want an example of what I mean. Progressive Economics but just ask the Dali Llama and Falun Gong what they think of their religious freedoms they enjoy under the one party "communist" state.
I am sorry I meant Democracy Vs Communism.. see I do agree on something..
But the other half about it being a religious conflict I disagree. The differances were no over religion but degree of freedom. Yes, that did cross over in to religion, but that is the the reason just some of those covered under freedom. It could be just as justly said that a free press was the reason, or freedom to assemble, or protest, etc. The differance was not religion but degree of freedom.
But the qoute of the thread mentioned the the divisive nature of religion and put it in such wording as to suggest that religion was "the most divisive" which I thing is greatly wrong.
Freedom of Speech, Assembly et al, torked off the liberals here. Freedom of Religion torked off the Conservatives alot, but not as much as the presumption that the State was G_d, which was pretty much in the Soviet Constitution.
Religion I think was #2. #1 was the Marxist Doctrine that the workers shall violently overthrow the ruling class as a matter of inevitability. Basically Marx had said "The Commies are Gonna Get You", and by definition, they werent going to work through democracy.
Yes the Soviet Commie manage to piss off almost every segment of western Society both liberals and conservatives.
See we can come to agreement sometimes.
Still there are many out there that feel if only they had organized the socialistic society then it would have truely worked. Communism is far from a dead issue and sneaks around with titles like socialism and such.
I like the Democratic system.. sure it isn't always fair or perfect but it give us the ablitiy to change when we learn it is going wrong.
(no subject)
In the USA you can talk to any two Christians and you will get a wide range of views. Their are Christians as liberal as you are. There are Christian far more conservative then myself. People united over causes not over banners. Not all who oppose abortion or homosexual marriage are christians or even conservatives.
The Conflict with Communism vs Capitalism had NOTHING to do with religion but was a conflict of government forms. While in such a conflict people looked for support from any number of sources including invoking religion. But all because someone say God is against them does not mean that was the reason for the conflict.
Like it or not religion isn't the MOST divisive of issues. Put four people on a raft and one peace of bread and you will quickly learn the food can be far more Divisive. I would say the MOST divisive things are resources... oil, water, food, shelter, etc. Second most would be property issues... law, land, property, jobs, etc. Third would be power issues.. speech, voting rights, type of government, etc.. The last divisive would be beliefs... religion, role of government, colthing, etc.
(no subject)
I said Capitalism doesn't have anything to do with freedom of religion. Capitalism is about economics. Democracy has to do with freedom of religion.
If you frame it as "Capitalism Vs Communism", youre right. But that's not what it was all about.
Democracy Vs Communism was absolutely about religion (and lots of other freedoms too, but religion was primary for the opposition to it here). The Religious right in this country were the most rabid anti-communists we had, and coined the term "Godless Communists". The communists banned religions. All of them. People had to practice in secret.
Their economic practices had nothing to do with how they treated religions.
Just look at China if you want an example of what I mean. Progressive Economics but just ask the Dali Llama and Falun Gong what they think of their religious freedoms they enjoy under the one party "communist" state.
(no subject)
But the other half about it being a religious conflict I disagree. The differances were no over religion but degree of freedom. Yes, that did cross over in to religion, but that is the the reason just some of those covered under freedom. It could be just as justly said that a free press was the reason, or freedom to assemble, or protest, etc. The differance was not religion but degree of freedom.
But the qoute of the thread mentioned the the divisive nature of religion and put it in such wording as to suggest that religion was "the most divisive" which I thing is greatly wrong.
(no subject)
Freedom of Speech, Assembly et al, torked off the liberals here. Freedom of Religion torked off the Conservatives alot, but not as much as the presumption that the State was G_d, which was pretty much in the Soviet Constitution.
Religion I think was #2. #1 was the Marxist Doctrine that the workers shall violently overthrow the ruling class as a matter of inevitability. Basically Marx had said "The Commies are Gonna Get You", and by definition, they werent going to work through democracy.
(no subject)
See we can come to agreement sometimes.
Still there are many out there that feel if only they had organized the socialistic society then it would have truely worked. Communism is far from a dead issue and sneaks around with titles like socialism and such.
I like the Democratic system.. sure it isn't always fair or perfect but it give us the ablitiy to change when we learn it is going wrong.