None of which has anything to do with what was being discussed.
We were discussing how the Republican party was taken over by a single religious point of view -- essentially driving Republicans of other faiths from the party.
You seem to have confused one religion taking over a political party with religion in general influencing politics. Nobody here was even discussing the latter so you can stop wasting your time defending it. We were talking about the first -- including some "we" who are Republicans pissed off that their political party got hijacked from them by a religion.
You see I disagree with the idea that the republicans have been Hijack... or that they are any more hijack then the democrat are to the secular movement.
Thats the point of.
Sorry your pissed off about the republican embraceing religious comunities. The "Hi Jacking" of the democrats by anti-religious anti-family movement have driven many out from their party as well. My wife being one of them.
In other words, you're one of the people doing the hijacking. Of course you don't see anything wrong with it. It's your jackboot on others' throats; from your point of view, that's a perfectly lovely order of things.
There is no "secular movement". What there is, is a movement where people of all faiths (including those of no faith) live in peace and harmony, and everyone is allowed to observe (or not) as he or she wishes -- just so long as their observance doesn't involve others against their will.
But apparently people like you have a problem with live-and-let-live. You think you should be entitled to use the law to impose a Christian way of life on all people. It's not good enough for you that Christians live Christian lives. You have to make Buddhist and Muslim and Hindu and Jewish kids listen to Christian prayers in school -- and then wonder why their parents are so furious with you. How would you like to have to have your kids start each school day with a prayer to Allah? Or Krishna? How would you like your kids taught that the world was created when the unborn Zeus castrated his father Uranus?
I would guess the thought doesn't trouble you because you are certain that that will somehow never happen. And if it doesn't happen to you, it doesn't bother you. Violations of others' creeds ain't no skin off your nose, now is it? Fairness has never much mattered to you. Just so long as you get yours, everyone else can go hang. Isn't that right?
The so-called "secularism" of the Democrats is an allowance for many people of many beliefs to all live and work together in peace. The old name for this was "The American Way". Maybe you have heard of it?
No only law suit removeing christian celebrations for public land. Purgeing and positive influances for the christian faith in our history from our history. And the open attack on any religious christian who dares want to work in the government, be a judge, or run for office.
"What there is, is a movement where people of all faiths (including those of no faith) live in peace and harmony, and everyone is allowed to observe (or not) as he or she wishes -- just so long as their observance doesn't involve others against their will."
In short hide that faith of yours of you might offend someone. How dare you be openly religious. It is harmony to teach a class on islam in the schools it is oppression to mention the Bible. and so on.
"But apparently people like you have a problem with live-and-let-live."
Like the schools systems teaching your children that your religions is work is live and let live. I guess it is live and let live as long as you accept our active attempts to undermine and destory you non-PC faith.
"You have to make Buddhist and Muslim and Hindu and Jewish kids listen to Christian prayers in school -- and then wonder why their parents are so furious with you. How would you like to have to have your kids start each school day with a prayer to Allah? Or Krishna? How would you like your kids taught that the world was created when the unborn Zeus castrated his father Uranus?"
I would have no problems with a opening service that represent the people that are being served. Them means if 5% of the population in that school are muslims then 5% of the opening prays should be Muslim. If 20% of the school are non-religious then 20% of the openings are either not done or are something of the secularist chooseing, who knows maybe a poem time. It is you that want to criminalize all religion for fear that it may offend 1 person in the whole of the school.
"The so-called "secularism" of the Democrats is an allowance for many people of many beliefs to all live and work together in peace. The old name for this was "The American Way". Maybe you have heard of it?"
I didn't know the AMerican way include punishing kids for mentioning God in school, firing teacher who read a bible to themselve on their lunch break, baning bring a holy book in school, and purgeing our history of all referance to the activities of the Christian faith. Sure Oppression is the American way as you see it. Rule by the minority. yeah that is what a democracy is about.
I would have no problems with a opening service that represent the people that are being served. Them means if 5% of the population in that school are muslims then 5% of the opening prays should be Muslim. If 20% of the school are non-religious then 20% of the openings are either not done or are something of the secularist chooseing, who knows maybe a poem time. It is you that want to criminalize all religion for fear that it may offend 1 person in the whole of the school.
How gracious of you to come at last around to that position. Alas, your last statement is factually incorrect. US schools -- such as the HS I graduated from -- used to teach about religion and it was fundamentalist Christians who got those classes shut down -- such as in the HS I graduated from -- because they didn't want their (nearly adult) children even hearing about other religions.
You'll forgive me in light of this if I think you are a cheeky liar and you believe no such thing, but you say it because you think it is pretty.
I didn't know the AMerican way include punishing kids for mentioning God in school, firing teacher who read a bible to themselve on their lunch break, baning bring a holy book in school, and purgeing our history of all referance to the activities of the Christian faith.
Feel free to substantiate any of those. You sound like someone who gets his news from chain emails.
Sure Oppression is the American way as you see it. Rule by the minority. yeah that is what a democracy is about.
You're not being ruled, you're being restrained from imposing your way on others who have their own ways, and that is exactly what democracy is about.
Democracy is not mob rule, where the largest group of people get to do anything they feel like to the rest. This, sir, is a democracy, where our Constitution -- which is as a light unto the nations -- sets forth a compact whereby people of differing faiths may abide in harmony. It removes religion from government for two reasons. The first of those reasons is to take the prize of control of the government, so that religions won't have a reason to vie for control. Or so was the idea. Clearly, in your case it didn't work.
(The second reason, you may be enlightened to know, is that they thought it a very creepy thing to allow the government to control religion, something which is only crossing the minds of some of the radical right now that they're learning that Federal dollars come with some very interesting strings. History has shown that when government and religion mix, the government starts telling religion how to be.)
And anyone who has a problem with this aspect of the Constitution is, definitionally, un-American. Indeed anti-American. The system of checks and balances which require that the American people work together instead of with winner-take-all mob-rule, is the heart of American democracy.
You've created an imaginary sob-story about how it's oh so unfair you can't make other people worship your god and follow your religion's dictates. You have the enormous gall to claim that free worship of your religion requires impositions of others and then when others defend themselves from you they are somehow "oppressing" you. Why don't you just go on and claim that Jesus told you to rob your neighbors' homes, and when you are arrested for burglery wail about anti-Christian liberals violating your rights. It would be of a piece.
I guess it is live and let live as long as you accept our active attempts to undermine and destory you non-PC faith.
The only "undermining" going on is that your religion is not allowed to erase any mention of things which might contradict it. Like science. Or history.
Well, that, and the incredibly anti-American behavior you, yourselves, demonstrate, leading many youths of your religion to abandon it. Those of you on the radical Right do a pretty good job at embarrassing other Christians -- you know, the kind which actually follow Jesus (you remember him, right? "Render unto Caesar"? "Turn the other cheek"? "Love thy neighbor"?) -- and patriotic Americans, the kind who love the Constitution.
"How gracious of you to come at last around to that position. Alas, your last statement is factually incorrect. US schools -- such as the HS I graduated from -- used to teach about religion and it was fundamentalist Christians who got those classes shut down -- such as in the HS I graduated from -- because they didn't want their (nearly adult) children even hearing about other religions.
You'll forgive me in light of this if I think you are a cheeky liar and you believe no such thing, but you say it because you think it is pretty."
I have visited with 15 of the worlds faiths, I have read the Qu'ran, Bible, Gita, Guru Grand Sahib, Book of Mormon, and so on. I have pray in a Sikh Gurdwure, been in a WICCA ritual a number of times, been to a Synigoge and a Eckenkar temple. I think compairing my intentions against yours YOU are the LAIR. I didn't care for your kind till you started yell "seperation of church and state" and started sue anyone who dared talk of their faith in public.
"Feel free to substantiate any of those. You sound like someone who gets his news from chain emails."
I know you will never accept ANY proof of your wrongs. BUt here they are rocket scientisit...
Christian parent choose to spend their own money to choose to give their own children a class. Not government money, not on government property, and not required of anyone... yet they get sued.
A law allowing religious medical staff to bow out of non- life threating operations given that they give notice and the procedures they are against are not the main role of the company. Again sued.
You know the Christmas cases... which don't seem to expand to other faiths like Jews and Muslims. Too numerous to list.
You also know of the Under God case in which 15% of the population get to silence the wishes of the majority, because they are offended.
A case in which a student was force to take back christmas cards in school because they had a religious meaning, and again during easter she was singled out because of her giving her friends cards.
A class teacher Islam in califoria in which students were required to dress and act like a muslims for a week. A action that if it had been the christian faith would have been opposed.
I know more about other faiths they you any day of the week. I would bet you a month pay that is the case. While I recognize that some on the right do want to be as oppressive as you are being. I belong to the crowd that feel freedom is the voting of all views including all faiths. That includes the strange ones you most likely never heard of Coadia, or the Realiens.
"The only "undermining" going on is that your religion is not allowed to erase any mention of things which might contradict it. Like science. Or history.
Well, that, and the incredibly anti-American behavior you, yourselves, demonstrate, leading many youths of your religion to abandon it. Those of you on the radical Right do a pretty good job at embarrassing other Christians -- you know, the kind which actually follow Jesus (you remember him, right? "Render unto Caesar"? "Turn the other cheek"? "Love thy neighbor"?) -- and patriotic Americans, the kind who love the Constitution."
I know your "Science" it only contains unrepeatable thoeries, half study research, and popular assumptions that have little or not science behind them. You think being a christian mean letting other run over you? The Bible also say to love the sinner but hate the sin. That mean when someone is sinning it is you job to tell them so and not aid them in their sin. You think that the christians should accept their families being though that their faith is evil and wrong. The a real christian is a floor mat mute and dumb. Christianity isn't a wet rag laying on the floor.
(no subject)
We were discussing how the Republican party was taken over by a single religious point of view -- essentially driving Republicans of other faiths from the party.
You seem to have confused one religion taking over a political party with religion in general influencing politics. Nobody here was even discussing the latter so you can stop wasting your time defending it. We were talking about the first -- including some "we" who are Republicans pissed off that their political party got hijacked from them by a religion.
Stop changing the topic.
(no subject)
Thats the point of.
Sorry your pissed off about the republican embraceing religious comunities. The "Hi Jacking" of the democrats by anti-religious anti-family movement have driven many out from their party as well. My wife being one of them.
(no subject)
There is no "secular movement". What there is, is a movement where people of all faiths (including those of no faith) live in peace and harmony, and everyone is allowed to observe (or not) as he or she wishes -- just so long as their observance doesn't involve others against their will.
But apparently people like you have a problem with live-and-let-live. You think you should be entitled to use the law to impose a Christian way of life on all people. It's not good enough for you that Christians live Christian lives. You have to make Buddhist and Muslim and Hindu and Jewish kids listen to Christian prayers in school -- and then wonder why their parents are so furious with you. How would you like to have to have your kids start each school day with a prayer to Allah? Or Krishna? How would you like your kids taught that the world was created when the unborn Zeus castrated his father Uranus?
I would guess the thought doesn't trouble you because you are certain that that will somehow never happen. And if it doesn't happen to you, it doesn't bother you. Violations of others' creeds ain't no skin off your nose, now is it? Fairness has never much mattered to you. Just so long as you get yours, everyone else can go hang. Isn't that right?
The so-called "secularism" of the Democrats is an allowance for many people of many beliefs to all live and work together in peace. The old name for this was "The American Way". Maybe you have heard of it?
(no subject)
No only law suit removeing christian celebrations for public land. Purgeing and positive influances for the christian faith in our history from our history. And the open attack on any religious christian who dares want to work in the government, be a judge, or run for office.
"What there is, is a movement where people of all faiths (including those of no faith) live in peace and harmony, and everyone is allowed to observe (or not) as he or she wishes -- just so long as their observance doesn't involve others against their will."
In short hide that faith of yours of you might offend someone. How dare you be openly religious. It is harmony to teach a class on islam in the schools it is oppression to mention the Bible. and so on.
"But apparently people like you have a problem with live-and-let-live."
Like the schools systems teaching your children that your religions is work is live and let live. I guess it is live and let live as long as you accept our active attempts to undermine and destory you non-PC faith.
"You have to make Buddhist and Muslim and Hindu and Jewish kids listen to Christian prayers in school -- and then wonder why their parents are so furious with you. How would you like to have to have your kids start each school day with a prayer to Allah? Or Krishna? How would you like your kids taught that the world was created when the unborn Zeus castrated his father Uranus?"
I would have no problems with a opening service that represent the people that are being served. Them means if 5% of the population in that school are muslims then 5% of the opening prays should be Muslim. If 20% of the school are non-religious then 20% of the openings are either not done or are something of the secularist chooseing, who knows maybe a poem time. It is you that want to criminalize all religion for fear that it may offend 1 person in the whole of the school.
"The so-called "secularism" of the Democrats is an allowance for many people of many beliefs to all live and work together in peace. The old name for this was "The American Way". Maybe you have heard of it?"
I didn't know the AMerican way include punishing kids for mentioning God in school, firing teacher who read a bible to themselve on their lunch break, baning bring a holy book in school, and purgeing our history of all referance to the activities of the Christian faith. Sure Oppression is the American way as you see it. Rule by the minority. yeah that is what a democracy is about.
(no subject)
How gracious of you to come at last around to that position. Alas, your last statement is factually incorrect. US schools -- such as the HS I graduated from -- used to teach about religion and it was fundamentalist Christians who got those classes shut down -- such as in the HS I graduated from -- because they didn't want their (nearly adult) children even hearing about other religions.
You'll forgive me in light of this if I think you are a cheeky liar and you believe no such thing, but you say it because you think it is pretty.
I didn't know the AMerican way include punishing kids for mentioning God in school, firing teacher who read a bible to themselve on their lunch break, baning bring a holy book in school, and purgeing our history of all referance to the activities of the Christian faith.
Feel free to substantiate any of those. You sound like someone who gets his news from chain emails.
Sure Oppression is the American way as you see it. Rule by the minority. yeah that is what a democracy is about.
You're not being ruled, you're being restrained from imposing your way on others who have their own ways, and that is exactly what democracy is about.
Democracy is not mob rule, where the largest group of people get to do anything they feel like to the rest. This, sir, is a democracy, where our Constitution -- which is as a light unto the nations -- sets forth a compact whereby people of differing faiths may abide in harmony. It removes religion from government for two reasons. The first of those reasons is to take the prize of control of the government, so that religions won't have a reason to vie for control. Or so was the idea. Clearly, in your case it didn't work.
(The second reason, you may be enlightened to know, is that they thought it a very creepy thing to allow the government to control religion, something which is only crossing the minds of some of the radical right now that they're learning that Federal dollars come with some very interesting strings. History has shown that when government and religion mix, the government starts telling religion how to be.)
And anyone who has a problem with this aspect of the Constitution is, definitionally, un-American. Indeed anti-American. The system of checks and balances which require that the American people work together instead of with winner-take-all mob-rule, is the heart of American democracy.
You've created an imaginary sob-story about how it's oh so unfair you can't make other people worship your god and follow your religion's dictates. You have the enormous gall to claim that free worship of your religion requires impositions of others and then when others defend themselves from you they are somehow "oppressing" you. Why don't you just go on and claim that Jesus told you to rob your neighbors' homes, and when you are arrested for burglery wail about anti-Christian liberals violating your rights. It would be of a piece.
I guess it is live and let live as long as you accept our active attempts to undermine and destory you non-PC faith.
The only "undermining" going on is that your religion is not allowed to erase any mention of things which might contradict it. Like science. Or history.
Well, that, and the incredibly anti-American behavior you, yourselves, demonstrate, leading many youths of your religion to abandon it. Those of you on the radical Right do a pretty good job at embarrassing other Christians -- you know, the kind which actually follow Jesus (you remember him, right? "Render unto Caesar"? "Turn the other cheek"? "Love thy neighbor"?) -- and patriotic Americans, the kind who love the Constitution.
(no subject)
You'll forgive me in light of this if I think you are a cheeky liar and you believe no such thing, but you say it because you think it is pretty."
I have visited with 15 of the worlds faiths, I have read the Qu'ran, Bible, Gita, Guru Grand Sahib, Book of Mormon, and so on. I have pray in a Sikh Gurdwure, been in a WICCA ritual a number of times, been to a Synigoge and a Eckenkar temple. I think compairing my intentions against yours YOU are the LAIR. I didn't care for your kind till you started yell "seperation of church and state" and started sue anyone who dared talk of their faith in public.
"Feel free to substantiate any of those. You sound like someone who gets his news from chain emails."
I know you will never accept ANY proof of your wrongs. BUt here they are rocket scientisit...
http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_cosa.asp?TRACKID=&VID=50&CID=469&DID=35663
Christian parent choose to spend their own money to choose to give their own children a class. Not government money, not on government property, and not required of anyone... yet they get sued.
http://www.consciencelaws.org/Proposed-Conscience-Laws/USA/PLUSA04b.html
A law allowing religious medical staff to bow out of non- life threating operations given that they give notice and the procedures they are against are not the main role of the company. Again sued.
You know the Christmas cases... which don't seem to expand to other faiths like Jews and Muslims. Too numerous to list.
You also know of the Under God case in which 15% of the population get to silence the wishes of the majority, because they are offended.
A case in which a student was force to take back christmas cards in school because they had a religious meaning, and again during easter she was singled out because of her giving her friends cards.
A class teacher Islam in califoria in which students were required to dress and act like a muslims for a week. A action that if it had been the christian faith would have been opposed.
I know more about other faiths they you any day of the week. I would bet you a month pay that is the case. While I recognize that some on the right do want to be as oppressive as you are being. I belong to the crowd that feel freedom is the voting of all views including all faiths. That includes the strange ones you most likely never heard of Coadia, or the Realiens.
(no subject)
Well, that, and the incredibly anti-American behavior you, yourselves, demonstrate, leading many youths of your religion to abandon it. Those of you on the radical Right do a pretty good job at embarrassing other Christians -- you know, the kind which actually follow Jesus (you remember him, right? "Render unto Caesar"? "Turn the other cheek"? "Love thy neighbor"?) -- and patriotic Americans, the kind who love the Constitution."
I know your "Science" it only contains unrepeatable thoeries, half study research, and popular assumptions that have little or not science behind them. You think being a christian mean letting other run over you? The Bible also say to love the sinner but hate the sin. That mean when someone is sinning it is you job to tell them so and not aid them in their sin. You think that the christians should accept their families being though that their faith is evil and wrong. The a real christian is a floor mat mute and dumb. Christianity isn't a wet rag laying on the floor.