How do you evacuate the non-motorists? [Δαφνη Ευτυχια Αρθουρος]

One other Katrina-related thought: I've been hearing a lot about the lack of an evacuation plan that took any account of the thousands of folks without cars.

I know that when Pennsic hit 10,000 attendees, that triggered a legal requirement that they have an emergency evacuation plan prepared (which, if I recall my history correctly, they'd actually already prepared years before then). I don't know whether the Pennsic evacuation plan involves anything more than the vehicles folks bring with them -- and really, unless the disaster takes out the parking area before anyone thinks to issue an evacuation order, leaving things behind will free up space for folks who arrived via shuttle from the airport or returned rented vehicles they came in to U-Haul, so there an "everybody drive someplace else" plan might make sense ...

But it seems obvious to me that any permanent city a hundred or so times as large should have a better evacuation plan than that -- one that takes into account the poor, the disabled, hospital patients, tourists. Right?

Then again, I know absolutely nothing about Baltimore's emergency evacuation plan -- I assume the city has one, but I've never heard anything about it, and I have no idea whether it consists of anything more than directing traffic while everyone with a car drives themselves out. I do know that Washington has a plan, but the only parts of it I've heard about -- it doesn't get mentioned much -- have been autmobile traffic-management details.

Now I wonder: how common is it for major cities to have an emergency evacuation plan that's any better than the New Orleans one? Was NO any worse than everywhere else? Is any city better prepared?

I wonder whom at City Hall I'd have to ask for a copy of the evacuation plan, and whether they'd let me see it or declare it a security interest.

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Most large cities have some sort of evacuation plan, and many are completely useless. No one knows about them because people don't want to think about disaster preparedness.

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Oh, and there should be a department or coordinator of emer prep that should HAPPILY give you a copy of the disaster preparedness plan for the city, at least as it affects the citizens.

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This should be easily and publicly available (and periodically disseminated). I lived in Pittsburgh for ~15 years and didn't know what it was. I came up with my own.

Now that I live in Spokane, I haven't seen one on their city web site. I looked because wildfires can be a danger (though not usually to the central city). So, I don't really know the preferred routes for getting the city evacuated if necessary.

S

I'm not sure how much of a "plan" is even possible? Realistically, how do you move every hospital and nursing home and mental hospital patient? What about the violent criminals? As far as just-plain-folks, I think they end up pretty much on their own if they want to leave town - you have a car, or you arrange to ride with someone, or your family drives down and fetches you, or you arrange to take some common carrier. Moving the folks who didn't leave town to the stadium WAS the evacuation plan. It would have worked in a less horrible storm. There are SOME disasters that just can't be planned for or made safe (especially in a city below sea level surrounded by water.)

Toronto's is available online, maybe yours is, too?

We discovered on Sept. 11 that the DC plan was useless. They closed public transportation out of the city at some point. They failed to use the mergency alert system. Fortunately, I had my car that day and also fortunate I was within 6 blocks of aaron's day care then.

It was also pretty pointless. Everyone involved with the metro system had a different story about if I could get home or not. Complicated by the fact that my getting home meant traveling under the Pentagon.

So far all I've found are lots-of-syllables-but-no-content "aren't you glad we claim to have a plan?" press releases, and a map showing that the evacuation route for folks with the resources to drive themselves are, for the most part, the obvious routes out of the city in all directions. (It does look like they won't want me to take the fastest path from my house to I-95 South, but my supposed route passes within a couple blocks of the shortest route. It looks like they want me to go out US 1 instead. Whether that's useful depends on the direction from which the danger is coming, and what refuge I'm headed for.) Other than "Look, we put up signs! And here's a map!", I've found nothing about getting non-motorists out. But my Google-foo is not the best, and perhaps someone else can find more. If there actually is any more.

I don't recall ever seeing those signs, but now that I know what they look like, I'll keep my eyes open. One page hinted (but did not state) that they may have been temporary, just for the 2002 Fourth Of July celebration.

I was thinking about this, since we live in New York City - one of the world's great pedestrian cities. *We* don't own a car. Half of NY fandom doesn't even know how to drive. And the only thing I can think is that all buses in New York - public, semipublic and private - would be, for lack of a better term, nationalized. (Civicized?) No one with a car would be permitted out of the city unless the car was fully loaded. If they have an empty seat, it will be filled. Anything that could hold people would be used.

And it would still be a logistical nightmare and it would still be futile.

There aren't enough enforcement officials to put this into place, even if any single person on Earth thought it would have a snowball's chance of working.

I searched mass.gov and came up first with guidelines for evacuating the mentally retarded:
http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1=Provider&L2=Certification+and+Licensure&L3=Health+and+Human+Services+Providers&L4=Department+of+Mental+Retardation+Provider+Licensure+and+Certification&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalcontent&f=dmr_p_hpci_emergency_plan&csid=Eeohhs2

Much lower down the search results, there was a practically useless page:
http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=eopsterminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1=Homeland+Security+%26+Emergency+Response&L2=Planning+%26+Preparedness&L3=Natural+Hazards&L4=Hurricanes&sid=Eeops&b=terminalcontent&f=mema_mema_hurricane_check_list&csid=Eeops

sdorn pointed out a picture of dozens of drowned, wasted school buses in NO.

One report I read said that the buses were not relocated for fear that they'd be stolen.

I wonder how much they'll be worth in salvage. (Will it be feasible to repair/refurb them, or will that be more expensive than replacing them?)

If they'd been used to carry poor people to safety, the buses would have been someplace safe, able to be returned to the city after the rebuilding. And as a side effect some lives could've been saved or the horror of the trapped folks waiting days for food could've been avoided.

But hey, the flooded buses weren't stolen, so they accomplished that goal. The whole world knows exactly where each one is now.

In my hometown, after 3 Mile Island, there was a public forum regarding the safety of our local nuclear power facility. One of the agenda items was the evacuation plan. The speakers concentrated on the route(s), mainly heading to town X. A little girl asked if town X knew we were coming. Nervous laughter...

the biggest problem with evacuation plans is that they aren't actually used until it's too late. nobody wants to start a panic, so they don't declare an evacuation until it's too late for everyone to get out in time.

this kind of thing is a good reminder that everyone should have something like the standard California "earthquake preparedness kit:"

a 3-day supply of water for everyone in your home
ready-to-eat food for your family and your pets
a first aid kit
tools and supplies (flashlights, radios, batteries, paper plates, pliers, tape, utility knives, etc.)
sanitation supplies (toilet paper, soap, detergent, feminine supplies, etc.)
clothing and bedding

i think this doesn't put enough emphasis on pet needs, personally -- i add a disposable litterbox, a bowl for water, and leashes and harnesses for both cats. (and don't try to get a harness onto a cat before you go -- just toss them into the car and go. you can wrestle with them later.)

all of this should be stored in a waterproof container that you can easily carry out to your car, and you should check it at least once a year to make sure none of the food has expired, replace the water, check batteries, etc.; even as disorganized as i am, i know that if i had to evacuate, i could do it in about ten minutes.

think about computer files as well: if you don't have a laptop, have some sort of portable storage that will hold the files most important to you. that does not include your porn collection.

if important papers are an issue, keep the critical ones in a folder together so you can grab them quickly if you need to. color-coding this for visibility is a good idea.

photographs: if you have important ones, keep them all together, on the same table or shelf.

readers will want to save their books. i strongly recommend bringing a couple of books, but do NOT bring more than five. identify the ones most important to you and keep them together. don't allow yourself to dither over the rest. your books are not more valuable than your life. if they're slowing you down, leave them behind. period.

if you're ill or disabled, you should arrange with a neighbor -- not a friend across town -- for assistance in an emergency. don't expect to be able to count on calling 911; phones may go down, roads may be impassable. likewise, people with space in their vehicles should be aware of any neighbors who may need help. taking a couple of minutes to knock on your neighbor's door could save a life.

never leave your car's gas tank less than half full.

and, of course, most importantly: when they tell you to evacuate, evacuate. don't think about looters, don't question whether it's necessary, just go. if it wasn't necessary, you'll get home soon enough. if it was, you'll be very, very glad you didn't stay.

oh, and i forgot to mention: if you do have a car, and a little trunk space, it's a pretty good idea to have a cheap portable grill or camp stove in your vehicle and ready to go. don't forget charcoal and/or fuel. speaking of which, go back to that preparedness kit and make sure you have candles and matches.

Depending on notice, two hours and I'd have us out of here, with basic essentials. Including beasties. Your list is good. I'll use it. Most of it I already do. Just out of paranoid habit.

And most first aid kits are inadequate. Think hard about H2O2 and betadine and something approximating neosporin and the quallity of your sticky bandages. Big bandages can be torn from one's petticoats, but rolls of rayon tape will secure them best. Safety pins are better, but sometimes scarce.

They managed to find buses to move 25,000 refugees to the Astrodome.

I remember reading some documentation years ago (ex-hubby was a survivalist *sigh*) that cities had secret disaster scenarios attempting to determine how many would be unable to evacuate and delineating how to NOT call for evacuations in order to keep the peace as all the scenarios determined that an official evacuation would actually lead to more deaths than a 'voluntary' (ie self-selected, prepared, wiser, healthier and probably better-monied individuals) evac.

Clearly, you would be on the government's disposable list -- they make very little effort to provide for anyone who is non-institutionalized but unable to cope for hirself. Ask a Libertarian what his party's plan would be -- I'm curious yet dubious :)

Try this one.

Thanks for the link.

I have to say that I agree completely with his sentiments (they seem to reflect pretty much what I had already said.)

I have my doubts that people will remember and decry Bush's failure in this disaster. Bush's chief tactic is to further marginalize the people who are suffering, dying, looting, and near-rioting in NOLA and to subtlely convey to lower- and middle-class white men that the poor (usually blacks) who die do so because that is what they deserve.

Bush manipulated African-Americans to vote for him by using the whole gay-marriage ruse to stir up Evangelical bigotry. That just goes to show that the oppressed have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER turning around and committing the same bigotted offenses against another marginalized group if they can be fed any sort of justification at all. This all brings to mind the Stockholm Syndrome and the Authoratarian/Shock experiments of the 1960s.

I feel sick for humanity. I thought that one of Jesus' chief missions was to bring an end to suffering and to care for the poor. Considering that our President considers himself to be a capital-C Christian, where are the demonstrations of following the teachings of Jesus?

I think my post backed this theory about our government. I was not happy to make it.

I try to believe the in the best of everyone. But even the Supreme Court let me down in 2000. Our people may have let me down in 2004. But I don't believe they had the chance. The administration's actions sicken me. Sympathy for those who put these assholes in power comes hard. They are getting what they voted for. OTOH, they may have wanted Gore or Kerry after all, and, oh gee, something happened to those votes. Land of the free, home of the brave, disgusts me these days. I certainly don't like who I'm feeling compelled to become.

If one lives below sea level, it behooves one to know how to cut ties and run. Maybe keep valuables in a mobile shed. ( Ooh, like Leviathan.) The government should help but won't, and hasn't fended for you. Just learn the ways to survive and do so. You will beat out others less in tune with the weather, yes. But you will survive. And then you must not feel guilty for doing so.
I'm feeling ruthless now.

I've stripped off my polite, civilised veneer, and will live up to my name, a bit.

Fortunately, Baltimore is historically devoid of ravaging storms. You're probably safe from hurricanes. Except for gas prices.

How quickly we forget -- a non-trivial chunk of Baltimore (and Annapolis (and suburbs and rural areas along the bay)) did flood just a couple of years ago (was it Isabella?). My neighbourhood is high enough to be unlikely to flood (as is much of the rest of the city, fortunately, but there've been areas away from the harbour that flooded from rain overflowing streams instead of the storm surge that hit Fells Point).

A direct hit from a monster this far north is unlikely. But not unimaginable. And, of course, we do get tornadoes not far from here (we've had tornado watches and warnings in town), but those tend to be "hide in the basement" rather than "get out of town". The fluffery I've seen regarding the purported existence of an evacuation plan seemed to be oriented more towards terrorism than weather though.

S_C and I were headed for Buffalo Gap the next day and noticed large chunks of trashed turf. The camp's schedule got delayed and changed because one of the main attractions couldn't get there. I was grateful nothing had fallen on our house. I knew you were safe, and didn't have access to much news about how others had fared. By the time I got back, other things had taken over the media's interest.

La Plata's tornado whupped folks up for a few days. Wonder how they are now.

Any plan the city (county, state, et al.) has will nearly certainly fail (as several folks have said) mainly because it assumes too much about what resources will Stay available and they wait way too long to declare it, even if the Idea is good to start with. The lists of items for a backpack or car trunk or ~ready-box are very good. As long as you are Thinking in the mode of being prepared, your odds are automatically improved. Doing something like these is even better. Note that such things will be quite helpful in ~lesser problem situations as well. Just be sure to refill any supplies asap after using them.

Do think about the odds of bad stuff happening ahead of going out Anywhere. Most of the time, the odds are pretty reasonable (or you shouldn't be going there ... !), but if you Think about it in advance, you're already better prepared than most. If you're having an especially bad feeling about a situation or circumstance, stop and reconsider. It's Very cheap to explain later compared to not being around to have the option, or being hurt badly enough that you Can't worry about it. My intuition (particularly in the absence of sufficient information to evaluate things ~properly) has saved my butt on enough occasions that I take it seriously. That nagging doubt in your head Matters!

Good luck to all,
---- Rattler

My limited experience with Disasters

On 11 Sept. 2001, I was a few miles from the Pentagon and directly across the street from the main FBI building ... Since I had been working in DC for almost six years at that point and was all too aware that it was a major target (if not The primary target for far too many nut-cases), I had worked out several escape routes and Always tried to keep the ~minimum stuff to survive a few days in my backpack, I had no real problem.

As soon as it was clear what had happened in NYC, I put on my pack and sent email to my family reassuring them that I was ok and on my way out. Then I hit the streets (on foot) to one of our other offices (a mile+ away north and not near anything likely as a target). I had tried every route I could imagine as at all practical over the first few months in town and picked the least used streets and alleys. The only traffic I saw was the Marshalls and FBI taking John Ashcroft out in convoy using a route that overlapped mine for a few blocks.

Once I got to the other office, I suggested that the people who hadn't left yet (who had cars and/or motorcycles) wait until things calmed down in a few more hours, rather than go and sit in traffic wasting gas they couldn't expect to replace inside DC just now ...

Several of them looked at me and commented that they had thought I was crazy (in 1999) to refuse a prestigious posting in the Main Justice Building just because it was a likelier target. Now they wondered how I had ~known~. I told them that I Hadn't Known anything would happen; I just looked at the odds (as I percieved them, not taking anyone else's word for them) and decided I wanted Not to increase them by risking being trapped inside a substantially higher-priority target.

My backpack generally has a basic medical kit (neosporin, stainless steel scissors and knife blade, lighter, etc.) with extra pain-killers and bandages, a toothbrush, small toothpaste tube, a hotel-sized shampoo bottle (which is perfectly good emergency hand soap as well) and some food and water as a minimum. If things look particularly iffy, I increase the survival-level supplies and include more change and cash in my pockets.

This has been habit since I was in high school, partly because I had a LONG commute (45 miles, one-way, an almost three-hour bus ride!) to my school, and also because I have been known to just decide to go somewhere on the spur of the moment, as far as 1500 miles from home on one or two occasions.

And people wonder why I need a backpack instead of a purse. Add a bunch of different-sized ziplock-type bags and a couple permanent markers.

And for me, a lighted magnifying glass and reading glasses. Should probably have my last glasses prescription in there too. If I know I'm going away, the glucometer kit.

I still think I could get us all out of Dodge adequately in 2-3 hrs. Less luxuriantly if needs be. Our pantry bursts, we have lots of things to pack things in, and I tend to store things in tidy packets anyway. Ya never know... Oh, and fans.

Δαφνη Ευτυχια Αρθουρος

How do you evacuate the non-motorists?

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I don't think I could do it properly in ten minutes.

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I'm waiting for the Faith-Based Initiatives

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I think it was Isabella

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