eftychia: Me in poufy shirt, kilt, and Darth Vader mask, playing a bouzouki (vader)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 10:36pm on 2005-12-09 under

I'm trying to use Visual C++ for the first time. I want to test something under Windows. Usually if I want to write anything in C I just do it all under Linux/Unix. (Hmm. I wonder whether any of the distros in the house include a Windows cross-compiler...)

So far, I've decided that this user interface is designed for folks who have really huge monitors set to many many dpi.

(And so far I still don't care for working in an IDE. I see all the potential advantages, starting with the "click on a compiler error message and have the editor cursor jump to the relevant line" thing, but I keep getting irritated at having to navigate an extra layer of UI, not having 'vi' as my editor, not having complete control of how windows are arranged on the screen (or on different screens -- editing on one computer and compiling on a different one is something I've done for decades), and not having my usual shortcuts handy. I don't know whether I just haven't found the right IDE yet, I'm more sensitive to the flaws in current IDEs, or I'm just too set in my ways and need to get over it. In the 1980s I used Turbo Pascal and Turbo C, and very quickly found out how to invoke the compilers from the command line so I could skip the IDE and work more quickly. The only thing I used their default UI for was the debugger. Every time I read about IDE features, I think an IDE really ought to make things easier for me, but so far they just feel like they're getting in my way.)

There are 8 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] acroyear70.livejournal.com at 04:34am on 2005-12-10
most IDEs get in the way. i was an emacs & ant (and command-line) junkie. i used visual studio for C# simply because i didn't have time to really learn the libraries (and it was pretty much the only way to do it back then), so its auto-complete features were nice so i didn't have to keep looking something up.

but for my core languages, java and php, i was doing it the old fashioned way (well, without the punch cards).

until I learned about refactoring.

the refactoring tools built into eclipse (at least, for java) are amazing. want to rename a variable, done, everywhere. want to move a class to a different package, done, including it'll look inside and fix every XML config file that makes reference to the old class name. The IDE is also far more useful when you aren't dealing with a 2,000 line program, but one with code in the millions. i can make a change and instantly see very other package and class that's been affected by it to know where i need to fix...and if i used the refactoring tool to add a parameter to a function/method, it can automatically populate EVERY call to that function with a default parameter for me so i don't have to clean up the mess everywhere.

but again, that's mostly for java. C++ and/or C# refactoring tools likely cost extra (in eclipse, its all open-source free).

and i still write GUIs by hand. i don't believe in GUI builder tools; they simply don't know as much about Swing (or now, Jsp/Html/CSS/DOM/Javascript/Ajax) than I do. and they never will.
 
posted by [identity profile] also-huey.livejournal.com at 04:40am on 2005-12-10
Visual Studio's default view is a cheap assumption on Microsoft's part: that you'll want to see every damn bell and whistle they can throw at you. All of the developers I know who live in the thing daily tweak the hell out of it. Hell, I'm not even a developer, and ~I~ tweaked the hell out of it. That big toolbox on the left? I never use that. The window across the bottom? I never use that. The project browser on the right? Yeah, I need that, but all of the rest of the screen real estate needs to go to code, especially when I'm poring over four-page SQL statements, looking for the hidden meaning.
 
posted by [identity profile] ladykathryn.livejournal.com at 12:23pm on 2005-12-10
*sigh* I have a confession to make - I don't really like IDEs either. I mean, I mostly use the XCode one, but even that I'll edit in emacs first, which does most of the things I value in a coding environment, like auto-parenthesing and syntax highlighting. Maybe I'd feel differently if I was working with manymany files though; mostly, I don't, but I can see the project management advantages to such.
 
posted by [identity profile] unix-vicky.livejournal.com at 07:24am on 2005-12-11
If you want Emacs to browse lots of files, you may want to look into a feature I just discovered myself: speedbar. If you have Gnu Emacs 21.x, you can enter "M-x speedbar", and it will show a new frame with a list of files in the current directory (and you can expand subdirectories from there). Also, two more things that look interesting, but which I haven't yet tried out: the Emacs Code Browser and the Java Developement Environment for Emacs (JDEE). Really, the only things I liked using an IDE for were graphical GUI layout tools, and debugging. And, I bet I can use jdb more effectively from within Emacs than I'm doing now.
 
posted by [identity profile] ladykathryn.livejournal.com at 12:53pm on 2005-12-11
Ooooh, nifty! I currently use Aquamacs (emacs tweaked for OS X, basically), but I wonder if it does that, or if I can make it do that?
 
I have been programming since the Apple ][ and use visual studio constantly at work. I have no idea why I would want some of those gimmicks. Pure bloatware.
 
posted by [identity profile] jmax315.livejournal.com at 05:13pm on 2005-12-10
"...this user interface is designed for folks who have really huge monitors set to many many dpi."

Nope. Been there with VC, and it's not much of an improvement. BTW, the command line interface to Microsoft C *is* still there; I think the cc equivalent is "cl".
madfilkentist: My cat Florestan (gray shorthair) (Default)
posted by [personal profile] madfilkentist at 06:38pm on 2005-12-10
I mostly like Eclipse. Its most annoying aspect is how difficult it is to check an existing project out of cvs. While I haven't used Visual Anything, I'd expect any IDE from Microsoft to be bloated and to have a "do it our way" feel.

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