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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 02:28am on 2006-11-23 under

So I guess wishing I had a TDR handy to troubleshoot a guitar cable would count as overkill or something, huh?

It sure would be convenient though.

Now there's an instrument where, having ever used it, one never stops seeing situations where it would come in handy. Gosh, that was an awfully long time ago. (Not counting the time a neurologist used the-same-thing-with-a-different-name on my nerves, which was also quite a while ago now, come to think of it.)

There are 9 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] whc.livejournal.com at 01:38pm on 2006-11-23
I once wrote a driver for an ethernet chip that had a TDR function. I don't recall the part number and it was so long ago that it's probably not available anyway.
 
posted by [identity profile] maugorn.livejournal.com at 05:05pm on 2006-11-23
I really think you'd rather put that amount of $ into something else.
Guitar cables don't really need high budget diagnostics.
I use a voltmeter and two wires with alligator clips on each end.

Checking it manually takes a whole extra minute or so.

The alligator clip leads allow for a pretty stable connection to the voltmeter which you can use in 'resistance' mode, but really just a continuity check with a beeper will do.

Hook the cable up to the voltmeter, and check each conductor on the cable.
The nice thing about doing it with the alligator clips is that you can hold the connector and wiggle the cable and you'll find the intermittent breaks pretty fast. ("beeeepcrackbeeheheehecrackcrackle", while annoying, says a lot)

The first check I do tho is to check the tip of each connector. Hold the connector firmly in hand and see if the tip can be twisted. If you can, the connector is hosed.
9/10ths of my guitar cable problems are found right there.

The next most common problem is wire that's broken off of the lead inside the connector. If you can open the connector, that's easy to see.
It's also easy to see ( esp. if you have a cheap connector) if the ground lug is loose. If it wiggles in the connector, ta-da.
If you can't open it, or can't see a problem, then Mr Voltmeter catches most of the rest of them, leaving you with barely .1 % being "other" problems, at which point you don't necessarily need a fancy box to tell you that there's something wrong with the cable itself and the best use of your time and $ is just replacing it.
 
posted by [identity profile] whc.livejournal.com at 12:56am on 2006-11-24
Yeah, but the TDR tells you where the break is, just in case it's in the middle of the wire somewhere.
 
posted by (anonymous) at 03:29pm on 2006-11-24
BFHD.

A problem with a guitar cable is highly UNlikely to be that.
I think, of all of the guitar cables I've ever troubleshot and fixed, in my entire life, that only ONE has ever finally been deduced to be a broken cable. It was a sorry piece of crap cable too, that I should never have pressed into service in the first place.

Way I see it, my voltmeter and a box of connectors has been well worth the investment vs return on my budget. (and Dglenn's is NOT going to be better)

A device that can tell me where the break in a cable is, might be worth it if it lets me salvage and recycle an exceptionally long cable (assuming that's what's borked about it and that's <1% of all the borked cableage I've played with). EXCEPT, that by the time I've spent the $ for a TDR, I could have replaced all of my cables with better ones, and probably upgrade my amp too. Who needs salvage diagnostics when you got that kind of budget?

You wanna salvage a guitar cable? For (sometimes) less than the cost of a new one, you can just lop off the connectors and solder on new ones and have a >99% success rate. If you want to save money on that process, 10 minutes of manual inspection and or voltmeter time WILL tell you WHICH connector is broken. For that small percentage where the connector is NOT the problem, putting that cable into the dumpster is the shortest, fastest, most reliable, fix you can do yourself. And the drama you save yourself is well worth living without a TDR. A guitar cable with an internal break isn't going to be worth saving. Knowing where it broke this time is unimpressive if you fix it and it breaks again, which it probably will.

Connectors wear out, even on nice cables. No biggie. But Bad cable doesn't belong in your box when you gotta gig.
 
posted by [identity profile] maugorn.livejournal.com at 03:34pm on 2006-11-24
My apologies. The anonymous reply is I. I didn't see I was logged out.
 
posted by [identity profile] jbsegal.livejournal.com at 07:52pm on 2006-11-23
Yeah, they really are great things, and yes, overkill in most situations…
 
posted by [identity profile] writerjanice.livejournal.com at 02:08pm on 2006-11-24
Using a TDR also makes sense when you are dealing with longer cables and you have a break in it. Say you have a 50 foot cable with a break. If you can isolate where the break is, then you might end up with, say a working 40 foot & a 6 foot patch cable.... Otherwise, you either toss it or start cutting it, either at alternating ends, or binary-wise (cut into 2 25 foot lengths: 1 good, the other bad, cut bad 1 into 2 12 foot lengths, 1 good, 1 bad... and repeat....)

TDRs are also nice for checking out snakes to decide on repair strategies...

I always wanted a combined TDR & freq. spectrum analyzer to check & characterize cables...

Janice
 
posted by [identity profile] maugorn.livejournal.com at 03:43pm on 2006-11-24
But,. as I mentioned before, by the time you spend that kinda money, you can buy all the cable you want. Snakes too.

You almost had me with the snake, but again, I gotta point out, that snake problems are pretty likely to mirror cable problems, and so far my observed track record is that "Borked channel" is >99% like to to be "borked connector". And so far, my own used and abused snake has lived in that world.

Also, if you look at how cables are used, especially guitar cables, it's not hard to see where the physics is likely to fall. If the problem really is the cable itself, the likelihood is that it's going to be close to the connector, because that's where you're likely to have it break if the cable is yanked upon (which is the most common reason why a cable would break). This isn't rope, it's metal inside insulating jackets, and those jackets make for a lot of physical resistance and friction over distance. Also, closer to the connectors is where the cable experiences the most motion of the twisty turny type. Your other leading scenario will be if the cable gets pinched substantially. I have yet to see a catastrophic pinch NOT have a visible scar that says "Here's your problem!"

But whatever. Go ahead and write to Santa for a TDR if you want one, but my letter is gonna have a wish for better soundgear and a roadie.
 
posted by [identity profile] madbodger.livejournal.com at 08:03am on 2006-11-26
While I don't have a purpose built one, I do have a 4-bay Tektronix 7844 'scope with a
spectrum analyzer plugin, pulser, and fast preamp, which makes a fairdinkum TDR
and spectrum analyzer, in one (somewhat big and heavy) box.

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