eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (cyhmn)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 03:18pm on 2007-06-06 under , ,

Last night, thanks to Clue suggested by [livejournal.com profile] syntonic_comma, I was able to work out the rhythm notation problem that was keeping me from writing down the tune I'd come up with over the weekend. (And as I predicted when I first complained about being stumped, it turns out to look easy and obvious once it's finally written down.) Since [livejournal.com profile] anniemal suggested that it might fit somehow with another tune I've been working on, 'Samhain', I made MIDIs of both of those plus 'Samhain Eve', to listen to all three together in various orders. I think that if I make the new tune part of a set with the other two, it's going to have to go first (hmm ... unless I do something interesting to the end of 'Samhain' ...). So I'm trying to choose a title that has something to do with the changing of the year and implies a bit of nostalgia. A couple of the titles I've thought of already seem too pretentious for what this tune is; others seem a bit bland. I dunno. The title shouldn't be as much work as composing the tune, but I do want to have a title I like before I put it in front of a lot of people. I'm considering 'Tomorrow and Yesterday' as one of the possibilities.

In the meantime, since my paid LJ account hasn't expired yet, I figured I'd toss in a poll for musicians...

[Poll #998297]

FWIW, the 12/8 version is easier to type in.

There are 13 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] metahacker.livejournal.com at 07:27pm on 2007-06-06
They're both a bit confusing because of the syncopation of the fourth note -- I'd prefer to see (in the 4/4 case) a tie between a triplet-eight in the second beat and a triplet-quarter on the third beat.

I guess I marginally prefer the 12/8, assuming you keep that triplet feel throughout.
 
posted by [identity profile] faireraven.livejournal.com at 07:42pm on 2007-06-06
I would actually prefer the 4/4, but with a slightly different take on the trip notation... A dotted trip?

The other way, the beats get lost.
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 07:47pm on 2007-06-06
The 12/8, actually, except for the first two A's there: The 1.5 A should be written as a linked eighth (following the quarter B) and a quarter A.
blk: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] blk at 07:50pm on 2007-06-06
Aha! That's why it was looking strange to me. Yes, ditto here.
cellio: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] cellio at 02:23am on 2007-06-07
Yes! I don't mind triplets, but triplets with that many tied notes are confusing as all get-out to read accurately at speed.

Even without modifying the As, though, I'd take the 12/8. I'm used to playing medieval & renaissance music without bar lines; I can read straight note values and not get confused.
 
posted by [identity profile] jmthane.livejournal.com at 09:09pm on 2007-06-06
The 12/8 may be easier to type in, but for clarity's sake, I would break up the dotted-quarter A into an eighth-note then quarter-note with the .... oh, dammit, the word escapes me, the slur mark like you've got all over the 4/4 triplets .... connecting them. Much less likely to make my brain fry in trying to eyeball the rhythm.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 12:19am on 2007-06-07
"tie"
 
posted by [identity profile] jmthane.livejournal.com at 12:22am on 2007-06-07
Thanks. You put that up just as I was typing up my reply - [livejournal.com profile] jim_p's comment (which you also replied to) set me right...

(And I'm a musician - I should, and do, know the terminology, I just could *not* come up with it. Brain fart, I guess...)
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 04:39am on 2007-06-07
It happens. :) It's not like you need know what it's called to use it. Many's the rehearsal saw me saying "Um, at the thingummy, we need to do a... er... whatchamacallit." :)
 
posted by [identity profile] jmthane.livejournal.com at 12:20am on 2007-06-07
*TIE*! That's the word I was looking for. Thanks to [livejournal.com profile] jim_p for kickstarting my memory.

Agreed that olde musicke may well have eschewed the "show the beat" mentality. But this ain't olde musicke era, and I do tend to write and read modern notation a lot easier than olde musicke notation. I mean, let's face it - go back far enough and there aren't even five lines to a staff. O.O
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 04:51am on 2007-06-07
Oh, to be clear, I'm not talking about olde musicke notation, itself, rather the editorial standards that modern scholarly editors have adopted to present old music in modern notation.

Not that this has anything to do with [livejournal.com profile] dglenn's notational question, but the reason modern editors have stopped using ties is that many feel they connotate something rhythmically different than the original tie-less notation. We can see this in [livejournal.com profile] dglenn's examples. The 4/4 with triplets is very clearly triplets-within-binary-time. It's unambiguous. But the 12/8 has some ambiguity. For instance, is the second A a strong beat? There's a couple ways to syncopate that measure as written. The feeling in historical music is that if the original was ambiguous as to how it should be played, we should be careful when transcribing into modern notation that we don't remove ambiguity, implying to the reader a single interpretation which was not explicit in the original.

The reason that those ties are easier to read is that they make manefest the underlying four-beat structure of the measure -- it asserts the easiest possible rhythmic structure. It makes it easier to read by making the music easier. But maybe the composer (in this case [livejournal.com profile] dglenn) wants that ambiguity to there, to either allow the reader to interpret or to encourage the reader to down-play the 4/4 tactus.
 
posted by [identity profile] jim-p.livejournal.com at 09:43pm on 2007-06-06
I concur with the comments by [livejournal.com profile] silmaril and [livejournal.com profile] jmthane. One of the unwritten rules of music notation is that in a measure with 4 beats it's bad to write a single note that spans the "middle" of the measure (i.e beat 2 to 3). If you have a sustained note that *does* span that "barrier" you break it up with a tie as they suggested.

And yes, if it's triplet-oriented stuff I'd tend to go with 12/8 myself.
siderea: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] siderea at 12:14am on 2007-06-07
Wel... one of the unwritten rules of music notation for modern music.

It's quite explicitly and deliberately not the editorial convention in scholarly modern-notation editions of Renaissance and earlier music, where ties within the measure are eschewed, resulting in measures which does look precisely like the 12/8 example. Those of us who work a lot in early music are really used to reading highly syncopated music notated without ties. Which is presumably where [livejournal.com profile] dglenn's head was at when he came up with that option. :) (Hey, [livejournal.com profile] dglenn, you got your period on your score[*]!)

[* I suppose that just something you risk notating mensural music...]

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