posted by [identity profile] kolraashgadol.livejournal.com at 07:25pm on 2008-04-09
"how much research and listening to the transcommunity have you done? how well have you listened when you did look at the information, since you've state you don't care."

Quite a bit. One might even say extensive. I didn't say I didn't care about transgendered people, I said I didn't care about your tone, personally.

"have you done work on training and teaching and recruiting effective allies? it's not being "nasty" to point out what people are actually doing. it's unpleasant, and really there's no way around it because... it's unpleasant. people need to understand how unpleasant it is"

Yes, although not in your particular community. I didn't say that pointing out what people was doing was "nasty" what I said was that the way you convey your information can have the opposite effect of the one you wish for - look at your discussion just on this list- between people who are known to be on your side already, and they're feeling unhappy with *your* tone. Now, I grant that these are people who aren't going to go away and become angry at all trans people just because you were feeling defensive one wednesday, but you might consider that not everyone is as safe as you: suppose your comments take someone who is I dunno, on the fence and living in a state where there is some kind of litigation coming up. The wy you say what you say probably won't have much effect on you, specifically, personally, but it might on someone else. When I say "friends" I don't mean, your personal friends, I mean people who can be of service to your community - or not. The world is full of nice people, but it's also full of people who aren't necessarily going to be won over by your waving the you are privileged flag in front of them.
Think about it in terms of some other situation: white guys in this country, on the whole don't feel very privileged. Most of them, aren't rich white dudes who went to Harvard and make a mil a year. Most white guys are struggling to make it, and when they lose their house, they don't feel like privilege has done anything for them.
That's why it doesn't make a lot of sense to organize communities by bashing white guys, or whatever - it makes the group feel good (it's not *my* fault -and it isn't, but so what? What's it gotten them to say that?) and in particular, rather than focusing on the *real* problem (lack of economic opportunity, ridiculous privilege for a few, denied to everyone else, increasing class division, government interference amongst those who would band together to force change,etc) everybody is busy saying it's someone else's fault, it's an individual problem or a group problem, rather than saying it's all of our problem and we all need to fix it. How far are we going to get as long as we keep labeling child care as a women's problem? How far are we going to get as long as we keep saying violence against transpeople is a trans problem. It's not it's all of our problem and it's the failure of civil society not to prusue it as such.
 
posted by [identity profile] stoneself.livejournal.com at 07:39pm on 2008-04-09
I didn't say I didn't care about transgendered people, I said I didn't care about your tone, personally.
parsing. think about who i am wrt caring.
I said was that the way you convey your information can have the opposite effect of the one you wish for
what effect do i want?
between people who are known to be on your side already
what? on my side? how much are they on my side if they can't deal with what they themselves are doing?
When I say "friends" I don't mean, your personal friends, I mean people who can be of service to your community - or not. The world is full of nice people, but it's also full of people who aren't necessarily going to be won over by your waving the you are privileged flag in front of them.
until they understand the problem, they can't actually do anything effective. there's all kinds of crazy shit that happens when people don't actually understand the problem and that they are actually part of the problem.
focusing on the *real* problem
...


the various oppressions are interlocking - not more real than one another.

* * *
Yes, although not in your particular community.
which community?

* * *
When I say "friends" I don't mean, your personal friends, I mean people who can be of service to your community - or not.
effective support is support that understand the services needed, not just the support "friends" are "comfortable" giving. services that are not relevant are not helpful or desired.

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