eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 05:24am on 2013-03-06

"Mass shootings are a tiny, tiny problem. Which isn't to say that they aren't utterly horrifying in more than one way. People's lives are destroyed, both literally and figuratively. What I mean to say is that if we were to prioritize our political attention to topics according to how many lives were at stake, mass shootings wouldn't even be on the radar.

[...]

"So in 1994, legislators were forced to ask themselves, 'What exactly will this ban do away with?' The category of 'assault weapon' didn't actually exist, and this was an opportunity for gun control advocates to create it, to say exactly what they wanted off the streets.

"As it turns out, they were mostly opposed to things they saw in movies. Which is to say that most of the features that now defined 'assault weapons' had to do with form and not function, totally sidestepping the issue of violent crime altogether.

[...]

"Perhaps most tellingly, semi-automatic (legal) versions of automatic firearms were banned just because they looked like illegal guns.

"When the category of 'assault weapon' had finally been conjured into being, all of its included firearms together accounted for less than 2% of violent crime. None of them had any more functionality than a hunting rifle. It couldn't have been clearer that this was a war founded on image rather than reality."

-- Kontra, 2012-08-09 (Emphasis added, mostly because I feareded too many people would stop with a gut reaction to the first paragraph without that bit of context ... mass shootings make headlines and really hold our attention, but if we want to reduce gun violence, our efforts are probably better spent focussing on the more common forms of it.)

There are 13 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
pickledginger: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] pickledginger at 01:21pm on 2013-03-06
Yes, handguns account for most. And they're lousy for hunting. And they're not great for.personal defense, either - a shotgun is a lot more effective and won't take out innocent folk in the next house ir apartment.
eftychia: Lego-ish figure in blue dress, with beard and breasts, holding sword and electric guitar (lego-blue)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 10:32pm on 2013-03-06
In my very-NON-expert understanding, shotguns are considered good for defense in the home. Not so good for carrying with you if you have a good reason to want to go about armed. Then again, I live in a state where concealed-carry permits are notoriously difficult to get, so in theory not many people are carrying anyhow, here.

OTOH, folks who live or work out where they need to be armed in case of encounters with dangerous wild animals probably do carry pistols a lot. I'm pretty sure we're not going to find a one-size-fits-all-states approach. (And handguns will keep showing up where most folks have decided they shouldn't be, because they're easy to transport and we don't have customs checkpoints at state borders. Which is not to say we can't accomplish anything; just that we're not going to eliminate problems entirely.)

But yeah, figuring out what/how to do something about handguns will save more lives than getting distracted by scary-looking-movie-guns.
 
posted by [identity profile] sodyera.livejournal.com at 04:19pm on 2013-03-06
Guilty on your predicted knee-jerk reaction. A person shot in a mass shooting is still a person shot who didn't need their life interrupted in that manner.

I still believe the best way to reduce gun violence is to just take away the guns, then require gun users to carry firearms licenses and register and insure their weapons for liability damage, just like cars, which kill even more people than firearms. Then add a Federal surcharge of $100 per bullet; the government will never have to raise taxes again. But I know confiscation won't work in this country, and I've already written my Senator with a rewritten Second Amendment. So I suppose I'll have to wait for whatever replaces the current united states for something more reasonable.
 
posted by [identity profile] sodyera.livejournal.com at 04:21pm on 2013-03-06
Guilty on your predicted knee-jerk reaction. A person shot in a mass shooting is still a person shot who didn't need their life interrupted in that manner.

I still believe the best way to reduce gun violence is to just take away the guns, then require gun users to carry firearms licenses and register and insure their weapons for liability damage, just like cars, which kill even more people than firearms. Then invoke a Federal sales tax surcharge of $100 per bullet; the government will never have to raise taxes again. But I know confiscation won't work in this country, and I've already written my Senator with a rewritten Second Amendment. So I suppose I'll have to wait for whatever replaces the current united states for something more reasonable.
eftychia: Lego-ish figure in blue dress, with beard and breasts, holding sword and electric guitar (lego-blue)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 10:49pm on 2013-03-06
Yeah, the point isn't that victims of mass shootings are any less dead, just that mass shootings are rare enough to be a distraction from really useful approaches to gun violence.

Requiring insurance and making ammunition really expensive sounds clever, but ...

If there is an actual need for weapons for self-defense, you've just made it unaffordable to the people likely to need it most. If there really is no such need, good luck convincing folks of that (I know you know -- "confiscation won't work in this country" -- I'm just being thorough in my reasoning here), and if there is such a need, convincing people there isn't will be even harder.

Furthermore, with the bullet tax you make practicing prohibitive, so the people who do cough up the insurance premiums are going to be terrible shots and probably have unsafe bad habits if/when they do need to draw a weapon. Hello bystanders!

There's a certain appealing logic to the insurance idea -- after all, a weapon is a tool capable of creating major harm when used correctly or incorrectly. But I think making it expensive enough to do any good will count as an infringement of the second amendment, effectively saying only rich people can have guns. Then again, I'm not an expert on exactly which hairs can be split how many ways when it comes to the Constitution and regulation of arms -- obviously some restrictions are allowed.
fidhle: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] fidhle at 04:30am on 2013-03-07
Liability insurance for gun owners would only cover negligent and/or accidental firings which cause injury, with is probably just a small subset of people injured. Insurance generally will not cover in any way an intentional act, nor will it cover intentional acts committed by third parties, such as people who steal guns. Therefore, the actual coverage of insurance would be minimal. In addition, those gun owners who have home insurance would probably be covered for accidental or negligent discharges by their homeowners policy.
 
posted by (anonymous) at 09:15pm on 2013-03-06
I continue to believe that we should try the mass effect of having all non-hunting weapons permanently painted pastel pink, and see if certain categories of violent crime are reduced.

But I was under the impression that certain categories of semi-automatic weapons could in fact be aftermarket altered to function in an automatic fashion.

As a pro-hunting, pro-gun person I know says, "If you can't hit what you need to hit with five bullets, you may need to reconsider whether you should be using a gun."
eftychia: Lego-ish figure in blue dress, with beard and breasts, holding sword and electric guitar (lego-blue)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 10:12pm on 2013-03-06
"we should try the mass effect of having all non-hunting weapons permanently painted pastel pink"

I kinda like this idea.

"But I was under the impression that certain categories of semi-automatic weapons could in fact be aftermarket altered to function in an automatic fashion."

This was addressed in two comments to yesterday's post about terminology. (I had thought so too, but apparently it's a lot harder than that and not often done.)

"If you can't hit what you need to hit with five bullets [...]"

My brother is a collector. Most of his military rifles only hold five rounds. (Also: they're from WWI and WWII.)

Even the magazine-size-limit issue turns out to itself be more complicated than sound-bites and bumper stickers can really cover. I do think there's a discussion to be had there. I don't think the correct answer is obvious yet.
eftychia: Lego-ish figure in blue dress, with beard and breasts, holding sword and electric guitar (lego-blue)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 10:17pm on 2013-03-06
One quibble on the pink idea: what is a "non hunting weapon"? What makes a "hunting weapon" unsuitable for the uses you want guns to have to be pink for?

If you're going to make them pink, make 'em all pink.
selki: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] selki at 03:57am on 2013-03-09
Well, if one really wants to use them for *hunting* ... I think deer etc. are more likely to spot bright pink than gunmetal black.
eftychia: Lego-ish figure in blue dress, with beard and breasts, holding sword and electric guitar (lego-blue)
posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 04:13am on 2013-03-09
I have to look this up, but ... (a) don't hunters wear bright orange camo-print gear and (b) aren't deer colourblind? If I'm remembering right on both counts, just make the hunting rifles pink-camo. :-)
selki: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] selki at 11:12pm on 2013-03-10
Hmm. Usually bright orange NOT camo-gear. Maybe I'll ask a hunter friend of mine about this.
skreidle: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] skreidle at 05:59am on 2013-03-09
Bigger issues are:
1) What if you score a hit with all five bullets, and the attacker keeps coming? Adrenaline, and drugs, are incredible things. This is not at all uncommon. (Answer: You continue firing until there is no longer a threat.)
2) What if there's more than on attacker intent on causing you serious harm?

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