eftychia: Me in kilt and poofy shirt, facing away, playing acoustic guitar behind head (Default)
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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 05:59pm on 2005-05-13

The way I have things set up, in theory I should see copies of the same mail whether I read it on one of my own Linux machines or via telnet to my ISP. In practice, until recently, I've seen more spam at home than at my ISP but it's otherwise worked as expected. (That is, the set of messages at home has been a superset of the messages at my ISP, with all the additional messsages being spam/worms.) Lately I've been getting some (legitimate) messages in one place but not the other, and I've had examples of missing messages on both sides. So a) I'm not seeing all of my mail each time I check, and b) I'm starting to wonder whether there are also some messages being dropped entirely from both streams. (This also means I'm not seeing all of my LJ notification messages; I'm guessing that I get about 75% of them. (I haven't gone and counted up all the comments to compare numbers yet, just noticed that some comments appeared w/o notification email.)

Now it appears some of my outbound mail is vanishing as well.

At the moment, I don't have enough spoons to spend a couple hours testing, tweaking, and troubleshooting in order to gather enough information to say anything useful to the support folks at my ISP. As soon as I'm up to it, I'll try to get it sorted out. For now it's one more frustration I'm not coping with very well.

There are 4 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] unix-vicky.livejournal.com at 10:20pm on 2005-05-13
How do you read your email? Do you have a mailbox at your ISP, and read directly from the server via IMAP? Do you have an intermediate mailbox at your ISP, and then download from there via fetchmail, or some other POP3 mail client? Or do you use stone knives and bear skins (i.e. UUCP)?
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 05:35am on 2005-05-14
The short answer: I read it out of the spool directory (direct/personal mail) or the folders where Procmail sorts it (mailing lists, LJ messages, etc.) using /usr/bin/mailx or Mutt on both systems; on my ISP .forward clones a copy (before Procmail filtering/sorting) to a file where a cron script on one of my home machines snatches it via FTP.

The long answer: I'm not entirely certain in what order the system procmailrc and my .forward file are applied; I just know that my personal .procmailrc is applied last. In any case, I'm using old-tech tools and not IMAP or POP. But not quite as old as UUCP.
geekosaur: orange tabby with head canted 90 degrees, giving impression of "maybe it'll make more sense if I look at it this way?" (Default)
posted by [personal profile] geekosaur at 11:23pm on 2005-05-13
POP3, despite various hacks such as UIDL, doesn't handle multiple mail readers at all well. If you need to do that, you should really use IMAP. If necessary, fetchmail your messages out of the POP3 server onto an IMAP server and use that as your main mail repository.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 06:23am on 2005-05-14
I'm using neither POP nor IMAP, 'cause I haven't gotten around to figuring out how to make the tools with UIs I can stand do what I want with those protocols.

AFAICT, there are three tiers of spam filtering at my ISP, only one of which is opt-in. There's some sort of outer perimiter where they do blacklist blocking, and every so often they misclassify something (and, for example, cut off one of my mailing lists); then there's the system procmailrc on the host where I have a login, which checks for worm/virus signatures and does a little more spam filtering. I specified that I did not want filtering, but apparently that only affects the third tier which I don't know much about.

I have a .forward file that clones my mail to a file that a cron script on my home machine fetches and zeroes every ten minutes using FTP. I'm guessing that the system procmailrc is applied after .forward, because that would explain why I see worms and spam on my home box that I don't see in the spool directory at my ISP.

That cron script breaks up the fetched file with csplit and feeds each message to Procmail for delivery.

My .procmailrc on both machines sorts messages into various folders (Unix-format mail files), putting each mailing list and certain categories of automatic messages into designated folders and leaving anything not covered by a rule in my system mailbox (/var/mail/dglenn at my ISP (SunOS) and /var/spool/mail/dglenn at home (Linux)). Despite the same .procmailrc rules, I wind up with slightly different sorting in the two places; I'm not sure why (different versions of Procmail, perhaps, or interaction between headers and hostname? -- I'll get around to investigating someday).

Whichever system I'm logged into, I read mail using mailx most of the time, and occasionally Mutt (for looking at high-traffic mailing lists threaded, or for unpacking MIME attachments), directly from the spool directory for my personal mail, or using '-f' to read from one of the folders Procmail sorted list mail into.

Messages that make it to my home machine but don't appear at my ISP might be explained by strangeness if the system procmailrc (though it seems kind of random for that); messages that I can see at my ISP but which fail to make it to my home machine seem stranger.

At some point I'm probably going to have to switch to an ISP that doesn't mess with my inbound mail "for my own good" so I'll know that what reaches the MTA reaches a place I have control over, but I'm not looknng forward to changing my email address and my URLs when it comes to that.

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