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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 03:44am on 2004-12-19

Spent Saturday as a day of rest, though pretty much just by coincidence. Did do some reading; still behind on email and paperwork and Christmas prep and phone calls and reading LiveJournal, but did get around to cooking a proper meal (spur of the moment experimentation with the potatoes came out well, and I got a capsaicin fix). Mostly trying to reset to feeling rested even though I know my body isn't going to be consistent enough sleep-wise for that to last -- I just want to feel like it's some sort of new start after getting past the fallout of the valerian experiment. I am sleeping again, but it seems to mostly be in 3-hour chunks.

But that's not what I sat down to write. This is: How many natural languages have not yet contributed words to English? (Okay, have words shamelessly snarfed from them by English...) Are there any languages with a population of native speakers who have interacted with English-speaking adventurers, tourists, tourist-service personnel, diplomats, academics, or businessmen, which have not had some useful word or phrase swiped? Are there any living languages whose population of native speakers have not had significant interaction with English-speakers?

The flip side is also somewhat interesting, but (for now, to me) less so: are there any languages English has not donated words or idioms to? (I'm guessing that there are more "uncorrupted by English" than "not stolen from" languages, but considering how many English words have found their way into French slang, and the English influence by way of technical jargon, I can see how my guess is far from certain.)

There are 18 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] thette.livejournal.com at 02:38pm on 2004-12-19
We Swedes are proud of smorgasbord and ombudsman...
 
posted by [identity profile] en-ki.livejournal.com at 05:09pm on 2004-12-19
And don't forget "Borking".
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 07:14pm on 2004-12-19
Surely you gave us more than that, back before William went to Hastings at the very least...
 
posted by [identity profile] thette.livejournal.com at 12:11am on 2004-12-20
If we're talking Old Norse, it has few likenesses with modern Swedish.

Besides, the Danes went west and the Swedes went east, mostly...
 
posted by [identity profile] hunterkirk.livejournal.com at 03:43pm on 2004-12-19
I don't know if it is certain because I don't know all the english words but the second largest population has had extensive interaction with english considering it was a english colony and it "Seems" to have given few if any slang or other words to English... Hindus. For that matter China and Korea also seem to be on the short end of that stick.

But I don't know if product names count.
zenlizard: Because the current occupation is fascist. (Default)
posted by [personal profile] zenlizard at 04:06pm on 2004-12-19
Oh, China has contributed a fiar amount to English, particularly to the technical jargon of Paleontology...lots of stuff going on these days with Chinese feathered dinosaurs.

Korea, to a much lesser extent...Tae Kwon Do is actually Korean in origin.

Don't know about Hindi, however.
jducoeur: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] jducoeur at 06:24pm on 2004-12-19
There are plenty of Hindu religious terms that have made it into English -- "karma" is probably the most obvious. (At least, I *think* that comes from Hindi -- I don't know for sure.)

If there are languages that haven't contributed to English, I'd lay my money on Africa. The African languages are often much further away from English linguistically, I believe, and historically the US (where much of the recent evolution of English has happened) hasn't paid much attention to the whole continent...
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 07:24pm on 2004-12-19
Ah, a useful clue! Of course, we'd also have to steer away from the parts of the continent that the British paid attention to during the past couple of centuries. I'm guessing we skip the coastal areas?

And your suggestion has sparked another idea -- how about South America? Are there any populations there that have not had significant contact with English speakers? Or have the native languages there contributed to English indirectly by first giving words to Spanish and Portugese which in turn passed then along?
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 07:16pm on 2004-12-19
Off the top of my head (and subject to being looked up in case I'm wrong) --
Hindi: "Jungle"
Chinese: "Typhoon"
 
posted by [identity profile] realinterrobang.livejournal.com at 04:11am on 2004-12-20
I think we also got "shampoo" from one of the Indian languages, not to mention jodhpurs, gymkhana, curry, and rupee, just to start with.

One South American word (of uncertain origin) that's in English is "mate," a two syllable word (ma-teh) meaning a tealike drink...

A similar interesting question would be, "What living languages have not borrowed words from English?"
 
posted by [identity profile] malada.livejournal.com at 07:12pm on 2004-12-19
I don't recall who said it but it has been remarked that English has pursued other languages down dark alleys to beat them unconcious and steal their words.

I say that other languages are content to merely pickpocket.

-m
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 07:19pm on 2004-12-19
There are two common formulations of the quote you're thinking of; I'll go hunt down the attribution for the first one later (the second is a result of the folk process being applied to the first). The context was "linguistic purity" and the speaker compared English to, IIRC, "a cribhouse whore" for purity.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 10:08pm on 2004-12-19
Found it -- James Nicoll in 1990 on Usenet:
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.
And the version I heard first, which appears to have derived from Nicoll's via folk process:
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
Google pointed me here (http://scribo.blogs.com/scribo/2004/06/language_thugs.html).
 
posted by [identity profile] thette.livejournal.com at 12:13am on 2004-12-20
James Nicoll, who said it, is on LJ under the name [livejournal.com profile] james_nicoll.
 
posted by [identity profile] still-asking.livejournal.com at 04:29am on 2004-12-20
The peoples of the Amazon rainforests????
madfilkentist: My cat Florestan (gray shorthair) (Default)
posted by [personal profile] madfilkentist at 08:31pm on 2004-12-20
It's said that the word "OK" has found its way into huge numbers of languages -- remarkable, considering it's a 19th century coinage. Eliminating all the languages that use "OK" would be a first step in finding "uncontaminated" languages.
 
posted by [identity profile] dianec42.livejournal.com at 12:47am on 2004-12-22
I think Icelandic might come close, on both counts.
 
posted by [identity profile] aliza250.livejournal.com at 08:06pm on 2004-12-22
What about "international words" for modern things, like "radio", that came to English from Greek or Latin roots, and were rapidly adopted nearly worldwide?

I'd also eliminate from consideration the proper nomenclature of species/genera/families/etc., as they were specifically designed to not belong to any one vernacular language.

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