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posted by [personal profile] eftychia at 10:36pm on 2004-03-11

I've gotten very little done today. In light of how the day started, existing constraints on my schedule today, and how I was feeling earlier, this is not exactly surprising.

I still haven't picked up serious groceries (I did buy milk, bread, ibuprofen, and chocolate a couple of days ago, but that's about it), so I'm doing that thing where I open the cupboards and fridge and try to decide what I actually feel like eating, and I decided it was time to try to make a pie.

Being in the "starving artist" category, and having people know that, I sometimes get handed unwanted food. (Er ... no longer wanted by the people handing it to me, not unwanted by me!) Two friends have tossed suitably vegetarian carb-laden food my way when starting the Atkins (or similar) diet, so I've got rice to last me quite a while (especially since I don't eat rice often and keep forgetting it's there). And at the end of the last Pennsic War, the folks in the next camp over asked whether I wanted their leftover canned goods (the vegetarian subset thereof, anyhow) that they would otherwise haul up to the food-drive. Same idea, just more direct, eh? I wound up with some things I'd normally buy anyhow, some pretty close substitutes for things I might ordinarily buy or make, and a bunch of stuff I don't normally get. Most of that is already gone now, of course, but there were these cans of pie filling ...

I decided that tonight I would finally get around to making my first pie. Fortunately I had bought frozen pie crusts a few weeks ago with this notion in mind. A certain Sheepie had told me that the trick to using canned filling was to add a little bit of fresh fruit to it, and I'd been tossed an apple at the end of a recent gig, so I looked at the instructions on the can of apple pie filling and the instructions on the frozen crusts and decided they were similar enough that I could interpolate, and then, of course, the what-ifs started: What if I add some frozen strawberries (more donated food) to this? What would happen if I tried to sneak in something hot?

I've got a funny history with recipes. You see, I never really learned to cook; I just started cooking one day. I've told the story before (and discovered I'm not unique), but for anyone who came to my journal late: When I moved out of my parents' house, I found myself in an apartment containing a kitchen and some pots and pans, with a grocery store a short distance away. So I went to the grocery store and bought some ingredients. Then I had a kitchen, some pots and pans, and some ingredients that I didn't know what to do with. So I said, "If I just sort of will these ingredients to turn themselves into food, and wave pots and pans and knives and can openers around as if I'm performing a cooking spell, will the ingredients turn into food? Heh. Heh heh. Funny thing about that: they did. Pretty yummy food. Friends, lovers, ex-lovers have told me so, which means it's not just determined imagining on my part. But then people started asking me how I knew how to do what I did (a lover watching me cook would ask, "How did you know it needed that spice?" Or, "What made you decide to brown the mushrooms that way?"), and that's when I realized that I didn't know how to do what I did. Fortunately I escaped the centipede's dilemma and continued performing my spells secure in my lack of knowlege of why it all worked, but I started taking notes.

Okay, I didn't take notes. I meant to take notes. This is why I always got an A in math and a B in science: math didn't have a lab notebook as part of the grade. But I did start noticing things. Some of the things I noticed were downright odd, such as when I found myself cooking by the colours things tasted. "Hmm," I would say as I sampled a sauce, "This needs a red spice," and I would start sniffing spice jars for the right shade of red. But some red-tasting spices look brown or yellow. And some yellow-tasting spices look green. But I knew what I meant by the colour-tastes, and it all worked. It was just hard to teach anybody else. And since I was not good at keeping my lab notebook up to date writing down the recipes I invented, things pretty much came out differently each time. (One lover spun a fantasy of opening a bed-and-breakfast, where I would be the cook, and there would be only one item on the menu: "Chef's surprise", because not even I would know what I was going to make, but it would taste good.) So not only had I not been using anyone else's recipes, I didn't even follow my own.

And that's where my insecurity snuck in: you see, I was actually afraid to try cooking from a recipe. I knew I didn't know how to cook (results notwithstanding), and if I tried to follow a recipe and it came out wrong, that would mean I screwed up, which is a different thing from, "Oh, it didn't turn out quite the way I had in mind, but I was improvising anyhow." So it took me a while to work up my nerve to try a recipe.

And even then, I couldn't bring myself to follow the recipe when the taste-simulator-synthesis in my head was telling me to adjust it. So I skipped the "try it according to the book" stage and went right to the "well that's somebody else's recipe, I don't have to follow it exactly" school of thought, which I gather is a pretty common attitude -- I just took a nontraditional route to get there.

(Note that I do have my failures in the kitchen, and when I go waaay off on some experimental limb and the limb breaks under me, well some of the failures have been impressive. But that's the risk one takes, and on the whole I've felt pretty good about my ability to cook except for the time I was living with two people who both cooked far more expertly, one of whom had actually attended a cooking school.)

Which is a very long-winded way of saying, "Sheesh -- the instructions said to dump the can into a crust, put the other crust on top, poke holes in it, and put it in the oven, and I couldn't even bring myself to do that without having to change it around!" (For the record: I can make macaroni and cheese from a box according to the directions. Um ... occasionally. (But adding a bit of curry powder, and some broccoli, and maybe a little bit of onion to the mac+cheese just makes so much more sense....))

And a long-winded way of explaining why there's (a very small amount of) cayenne pepper -- and strawberries -- in my "just follow the directions on the can" apple pie.


So. Where was I? Oh, right, the results of my first ever attempt at pie.

It's not bad. It's not great. It's not my mother's, but fortunately I knew better than to expect that. (Mom makes good pie. Mom makes a lot of yummy stuff. I do remember a span of a couple years when she was mysteriously unable to make instant mashed potatoes correctly (real mashed potatoes still worked fine), but that's really the only thing I can remember her ever not making well off the top of my head. So I guess the "easy things hard, hard things easy" bit might have been inherited? But I digress. Again.) Right, to my pie...

I don't know whether Mom uses canned pie filling -- I don't think so, based on mouth-feel and degree of sweetness -- but in any case, I wasn't expecting a "dump can into crust" pie to be anywhere near as wonderful as her pies. With that reasonable level of expectation, I'd say this pie isn't bad. It's not boast-worthy either, but it's okay. I'm happy with it, as long as I improve from here. And besides, this wasn't really a "learn how to make pie" pie. It was a "use up that can of pie filling because I'm hungry, I want carbs, there's not much else in the house, and it's here" pie. It might be better with melted Cheddar cheese on top of it (I don't usually put cheese on apple pie, but I know some people do, and I've tried it before).

I wound up slicing up a handful of frozen strawberries and the one small, fresh apple ... I put a layer of strawbery bits on the bottom, the can of pie filling on top of those, and a layer of fresh apple pieces and more strawberry chunks on top of that, sprinkled a very fine, very light dusting of cayenne over everything, and then put on the top crust with a couple of slits cut in it. I followed the time/temperature instructions on the can of pie filling. There's only the tiniest bit of cayenne pepper in it, and it's just the right amount. Any less might not have had any effect, any more would be too much. I expected the cayenne to play off the apple flavour, but oddly enough it seems to interact more with the strawberries.

But now I want to try making a real pie. One that doesn't mostly come from a can. I don't expect to equal my mother for a long time (if ever), but I've got something to shoot for.

And for the next couple of days, I can snack on some okay apple pie with just a leeeetle bit of a bite to it and strawberry overtones. Like I need that many calories per snack. But hey, it feeds the belly and satisfies the mouth, until I figure out how much I can afford to spend on groceries this weekend.

There are 31 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] blumindy.livejournal.com at 08:14pm on 2004-03-11
Oh-My-God! You kill me!
The strawberry-apple thing sounds like a good combo. I'm also an experimental cook -- the school of improving recipes was always for me.
Do you remember anything I cooked? Or that I paid rent to Holly, Leah, and Co. by cooking for them?
If *I* were making your straw-apple pie, I'd 86 the cayenne and use some lemon and mint although the cayenne is an interesting concept. i think I'd like cumin better, but then the pie would need raisins...oh, don't get me started!

I developed the world's greatest pumpkin pie recipe. It has a layer of ginger cookies in the crust. Everyone looks and expects that layer to be chocolate.......
I also do an oil-based crust (life is interesting when you keep kosher/don't eat traife (no lard.)) It is unusual and delicious, especially with berry filling. Canned filling it too damn sweet for me......*shudder*
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 02:09am on 2004-03-12
Regrettably, I don't remember any particular dishes you cooked. (On the one hand I keep feeling like I should remember; on the other hand, 20+ years is an awful lot of meals ago. I'm still sweeping the corners of the archive in my skull, hoping to uncover a taste-memory.)

Lemon/mint ... yeah, that would've been really good, in a completely different direction. I'll have to remember to get around to trying that.

And yes, the canned filling is too sweet (at least the apple is). But I knew that going in, so it didn't take me by surprise.
 
posted by [identity profile] blumindy.livejournal.com at 07:30pm on 2004-03-14
Don't worry. Remembering food from over 20 years ago is ridiculous and impossible.
I do remember being in an Italian phase back then. I made stuffed shells and manicotti that were great. I've made them on and off since then. I've made a chicken, ricotta, parmesan, and mushroom combo that is amazingly good (I think omitting the chicken would be possible and still good.) I've done spinach and ricotta from back then (my secret is the nutmeg in the spinach.) I've done a number of cheese blends always with a ricotta base.
I don't eat pasta any longer so it has been awhile since I made those. Perhaps after Pesach, I'll treat everyone around here....I think I may have made the pumpkin-stuffed ones back then, too. Cream and a whiff of mild onion in them, as I recall. I liked cooking for all of you people back then.....food happily received, appreciated, and shared in friendship and warmth, as I recall. Now when I cook, it's short-order, please everyone-no-matter-what-they-demand and with no appreciation....not to mention all the mean spirits. No wonder I don't like to eat.
 
posted by [identity profile] butterfluff.livejournal.com at 08:37pm on 2004-03-11
Remember the scratch and dent grocery at the flea market on Sat and Sun.

I added some Taco Bell Fire Sauce to chocolate cake mix once. No complaints. I noticed the difference, I'm not sure anyone else did.

Something else -- use bbq sauce or other liquids with instant biscuit mix.
 
posted by [identity profile] blumindy.livejournal.com at 09:32pm on 2004-03-11
Chocolate and hot peppers are notoriously good together. Aztecs did this all the time but there was no sugar in the chocolate, which they served as a hot drink.
I'd try this combo if I weren't allergic to peppers. It's intriguing.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 02:02am on 2004-03-12
I've wondered abut Aztec chocolate for a long time. Since childhood I've heard that they served it as a hot drink, but I've never heard a description of how it was prepared.

On a related note, for several years I've been wondering how well it would work to take whole, roasted cocoa beans and grind them the same way one grinds coffee, and prepare a drink that way (well, "those ways": drip, Turkish, espresso, etc...) And, of course, I've wondered whether that has any relation to how the Aztecs did it.

The last time I went looking for cocoa beans (about two years ago, IIRC), I was only able to find places to buy them by the shipload (I'm not sure I even saw trainload quantities, and I know I didn't see anything as small as a truckload available). Sooner or later I'll find some place that will sell me a pound of beans to experiment with.
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
posted by [personal profile] redbird at 05:40am on 2004-03-12
Basically, ground cacao beans (our cocoa powder is a much more recent invention), ground spices, and boiling water. Or so I've read--I've never done this, being fond of my hot chocolate sweet and made with milk.

I routinely put cinnamon in my hot chocolate (and often one or more of vanilla, salt, and orange extract); I should try a bit of hot pepper sometime.
 
posted by [identity profile] lilkender.livejournal.com at 06:11am on 2004-03-12
This may sound like a stupid question but how do you get the cinnamon to not just float on top of the drink? I've been buying tea bags with cinnamon already in... Or do you use cinnamon sticks rather than ground powder?
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
posted by [personal profile] redbird at 06:36am on 2004-03-12
My procedure (taken off a Droste cocoa box) is to mix the cocoa powder, sugar, and spices together in the mug; add milk, a little at a time, and mix until it makes a paste. Then, when the milk is hot enough, pour it into the mug and mix until the cocoa/sugar/spice paste is dissolved.
 
posted by [identity profile] lilkender.livejournal.com at 08:35am on 2004-03-12
I'm kinda glad there is a trick to it and I'm not just stupid, and I'm kinda upset that it takes so much effort... but thanks! Definitely worth a try.
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:54am on 2004-03-12
Oh they probably noticed but had no idea how you'd gotten the effect. :-) The interaction of peppers and chocolate (both at "enough to taste hot" and "can't taste the peppers as peppers" levels) is pretty neat.
 
posted by [identity profile] angelovernh.livejournal.com at 09:32pm on 2004-03-11
that's an interesting way to cook.. Was most intriged by the color spices that taste like certain colors, but might have different visual colors.. hrm..
 
posted by [identity profile] dglenn.livejournal.com at 01:29am on 2004-03-12
It's one of two major aspects of what I refer to as "my sortakinda synaesthesia-like thing". It's not textbook synaesthesia as I've read it described so far, because I don't actually see a flash of red when I taste or smell a red spice, but it's definitely a sensory-crossover thing because there is a pronounced "redness" (or "greenness" or "goldness", etc.) to the flavours.

I've never been quite certain how well the approach translates for people who don't perceive the flavours as having colours. It might simply be a matter of vocabulary... (English -- and I think most other human languages, but I'm not sure -- doesn't have anywhere near as many tools for describing smells and flavours as it does for colours and sounds. When I say "reddish" to describe a visual characteristic, everybody has a pretty good idea what I mean. But when I want to say, "in the same direction as what red pepper, coriander, paprika, and cinnamon have in common but cumin and mustard don't, and it's not the heat; you know, the opposite of jalapeno or serrano," well first of all that's pretty long and you have to play all those tastes in your head to figure out what the Hell I mean, and secondly you might come up with a different answer if we have different ideas of which components of a couple of those flavours are the relevant ones for that description.) So I wonder whether simply having the vocabulary for concisely describing "flavour space" would be enough to make what I do that way seem obvious to others, or whether I really am doing something unusual besides the colour-mapping.

(The other aspect of my sortakinda-syaesthesia-like thing is when I feel like I'm using a sense organ for a different sense than normally applies to it, such as when I "feel" a texture with my eyes, or "look at" something with my ears.)
 
Or if I did, I had forgotten! (Smacks self across forehead.) Synaesthesia does simplify cooking (it becomes all about the colour-matching), but it also does complicate explaining your cooking to people. ("What do you mean, cumin tastes gold?! Cumin's green-brown!")

There are so many of us (check over at Slashdot sometime -- the /synaesthetes include me, TuckerEstron, Tomble, and SolemnDragon, and we all have different manifestations!)...the conspiracy's afoot.

Blumindy, you ought to try using vegetable shortning. No trayf anywhere thereabouts. (No, I don't keep kosher, but hexures are my best friends, since I have to avoid milk anything like the plague.)
 
I thought you already knew. Except that I haven't been comfortable as identifying what I experience as synaesthesia becuase every written description of synaesthesia I've encountered has described effects I don't experience and presented those as being "what synaesthesia is".

So is what I've been calling "my kindasorta synaesthesia-like thing" formally actually synaesthesia (just with different manifestations than what all the magazine writers understand), or is this an informal use of the word because that's what the phenomena are closest to and there's no more convenient word to use?

In either case, it comes in handy in magick as well as in cooking (and I wonder if some small degree of it can be learned). But in both fields it does induce head-scratching in listeners who don't share the experience.
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 04:44am on 2004-03-12
To some small degree it can be learned. I was a HF radio operator once. We used good old-fashioned Morse. The sound pattern di-dah quite soon looked (yes, the sound looked) exactly the same as the graphic shape of the written letter a sounded.

As for spices, for me they have more like shapes than colours.
 
I would call it that, especially if (and only if) your perceptions of which spices etc. taste what colours don't match up with the actual colours of the spices (like how cumin tastes grey-gold but is actually a brown-green colour, and thai basil tastes red, even though it's green with purple accents). If you have a near-zero colour-perception match (unlike some of the posters on here who've been matching "red things" with red things and "green things" with green things -- what do you do when a "green thing" actually tastes yellow?), then you're talking about a form of genuine synaesthesia.

You downloaded the "electroklezmer" song, right? Quick, what colour is it predominantly? (I'm betting you'll be able to tell me.)

Tomble has the more classic kind of synaesthesia, the kind where letters and numbers have distinct colours. (I'm so glad I don't have that -- it would mess up my reading speed for sure.) Actually, how you're describing what you see seems to be classic synaesthete behaviour. See this link from SciAm. Apparently no one else can describe it adequately, either. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] anniemal.livejournal.com at 07:36pm on 2004-03-12
So_that_explains the amazing Pennsic curried lentils!
ext_4541: (Default)
posted by [identity profile] happypete.livejournal.com at 04:00am on 2004-03-12
cooking can be fun...I still prefer eating, but there you have it...
 
posted by [identity profile] aliza250.livejournal.com at 04:45am on 2004-03-12
Glenn, you forgot to mention that when you were learning to cook, the first cookbook you bought was a book of Ethiopian recipes. I think that had an effect on you. :-)

Another good combination is garlic and chocolate, as in garlic brownies.

Then there are foods-of-convenience, like "refrigerator soup" and "curried leftovers". Actually, one of my favorite recipes came together that way - I needed to marinate some chicken, but the only things in the fridge were mustard, cranberry juice, and yogurt. Put those three together, add eastern Asian seasoning, and voila! something that I've deliberately made again many times.

Or the chicken soup recipe that mutated, one ingredient shift at a time, into my wonderful vegan spinach-tomato stew.
 
posted by [identity profile] thette.livejournal.com at 05:25am on 2004-03-12
Ooooh! Recipe (or your equivalent)?
 
posted by [identity profile] lilkender.livejournal.com at 06:27am on 2004-03-12
there would be only one item on the menu: "Chef's surprise",

That's exactly how my boyfriend cooks... Me, I take a recipe and add or alter things. This gets more difficult when baking items that will rise (with yeast or baking soda) but can be learned with some practice (I have to remember to soak raisins/dried fruit first or they will soak moisture out of the muffins and make for very dry muffins. Oops).

I know just what you mean about the synaesthesia-kind-of-thing for spices. I do that too but never thought of it that way. I always thought it was just because they reminded me of something that was that color. Most hot things make me think of red (chili powder, bbq, and anything with tomatoes or berries), except for curry. Mustard and curry and its ingredients (cumin, turmeric)- yellow. There are a number of green things I don't like (green curry, cilantro, wasabi, guacamole) so I mostly avoid green. Herbs taste green - mint, dill, thyme. Fresh-cut grass smells green.

If you'd like some more cookbooks for recipes to base your dishes on I have some I'd like to get out of my house...
 
posted by [identity profile] juuro.livejournal.com at 10:59am on 2004-03-12
Mint tastes light blue. Dill is a bright yellow. Guacamole tastes purple-pink.

-o-

Long ago when I was taking my first forays into the field of experimental cooking, the result was -- according to my then boyfriend -- either mössö (which has entirely different sound and connotation from mousse) or röhnäsörsseli. Taste was usually quite nice, but the visual appearance was precisely what the latter noun sounds like.

There ought to be a parallel term for "onomatopoietic" meaning words that sound like something looks.
 
posted by [identity profile] thette.livejournal.com at 12:38pm on 2004-03-12
Dill tastes like mustard looks.

Cumin would be a warm and not too intruding red, especially when cooked long.
 
posted by [identity profile] silmaril.livejournal.com at 06:39am on 2004-03-12
Cayenne pepper w/ strawberries... you're starting to Give me Ideas.

I've wanted to experiment with the sweet-bitter mix in a while now, but haven't had the chance to cook recently (Kor's cake doesn't count, since someone else's birthday cake isn't really where you want to experiment, necessarily. And even there I did sneak in a bit of experimenting with rum.)
 
posted by [identity profile] aiglet.livejournal.com at 07:04am on 2004-03-12
FWIW, the way to make apple pie without canning stuff is to buy apples (generally green ones, since you're going to add sugar), core and slice them into thinnish slices (with or without peeling them, usually people do) and then put the spices and the apple bits together in a bowl and mix until they turn sludgy, and then put the whole thing in the pie crust.

I usually do mine with a bit of sugar, some cinnamon, and maybe some nutmeg if I'm feeling adventurous. Oh, and sometimes a bit of lemon juice to keep the apples from turning funny colors while I'm puttering around.

I find that an easy way to explain to people how things taste like colors is with candy -- Skittles are the most blatant example. It's not quite the same as it is for spices, because they're more subtle, but I think it gets the idea across.
cellio: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] cellio at 09:39am on 2004-03-12
Someone brought pie filling to Pennsic? What on earth were they planning to do with it? (Yes, there are ovens at Pennsic -- but the people who take the trouble to build and cook with them are not generally the sorts who will then bake pies with commercial pie filling in them. :-) )

It's a pity you don't live closer; I could unload my leftover chametz on you in a few weeks.
 
posted by [identity profile] butterfluff.livejournal.com at 10:36am on 2004-03-12
You can mix pie filling into things like pancake batter and muffin mix.

Or cook them up sans crust, or with those hold-over-the-fire-sandwichcookers, with bread for crusts.

Or... On top of waffles! Yeah!

And Caer Edgemere brings a home oven/stove powered by propane. We have lasagne and things like that. Layer cakes, all sorts of things.
cellio: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] cellio at 10:42am on 2004-03-12
Thank you for broadening my pie-filling horizons. I had no idea! (Ok, I should have thought of waffle toppings.)

And Caer Edgemere brings a home oven/stove powered by propane.

Ooh. Drool. :-) Hey, we could do that too! Don't know if we will, but it's worth investigating. We typically use six propane canisters per Pennsic anyway between the grill and the hot shower, so what's a little more? :-) (We do not yet have a refrigerator, in case you're wondering.)
 
posted by [identity profile] butterfluff.livejournal.com at 06:34pm on 2004-03-14
Apparently I forgot to mention the home hot water heater, also powered by propane. Makes dishes and showers a snap.
 
posted by (anonymous) at 11:48pm on 2004-03-12
I'm noodling at what to call your sortakinda synesthesia--the tentative candidates are strong sensory crossover and strong sensory metaphor.

This all puts me in mind of a recipe from _The Frog Commissary Cookbook_--spaghetti squash stirfried with
sweet red pepper, carrots and basil. Not only was it tasty,
but I was really pleased that the *bright* flavor matched the *bright* colors.

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